Analyze This Harb Carver

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Analyze This Harb Carver

Postby SkierSynergy » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:14 pm

Skier is Rick shewchuk. The ski area is in Birmingham, Alabama. Comment on this first, then I'll post more.

Image

I would encourage more people to add images of Harb Carving for comments.
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Postby milesb » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:43 pm

Nice chin counterbalance! :D
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Postby Icanski » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:43 pm

It's hard to tell at this angle but one thing I see is that it looks like the free foot is either too far back or the stance leg is too far forward.
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Postby Hobbit » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:57 pm

This may completely off the mark, but if I draw the line through the shoulders on this image it will be almost horizontal (maybe a little tilt to the outside), but the line drawn through the hips is not horizontal at all.
Don't you want to have the hips as horizontal as possible (shorten the inside leg, etc.) ?
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Postby j.clayton » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:23 pm

Looks like in a big effort to pull the free foot back ( note grim determination in afformentioned chin counter ) he has also pulled the inside hip back and tried to compensate with the shoulders . Thus losing a stacked position and co-contraction of hips . A bit back seat and seems a bit too much weight on inside skate .

There seems to be a lot of hard conscious effort going on , note grip on poles as well . Perhaps a lot of seperate things going on in the process of "getting it all together"
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More comments

Postby SkierSynergy » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:18 pm

Let me toss this comparison in the mix.

Image
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Postby HarveyD » Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:20 pm

The second carver is setting up to plant his left pole to start a new turn; whereas the first one has his left pole back (not set up to plant).
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Postby Hobbit » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:05 pm

Comparing these two I say the first position is achieved through extreme couner - balance alone vs. the second is doing correct counter - rotation and counter - balance.
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Postby Harald » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:54 pm

It?s probably not fair for me to comment as I know Rick?s skiing history. He hardly skis but a few days a season.

His balance in this picture on the Carvers is great. He has improved dramatically. This is a strong position and I applaud the inside foot pull back. This angle is not easy to achieve. His mid body is relatively erect (are you allowed to say that on a forum these days?). He used to be very bent. Sure there are some minor quibbles about counter etc, but overall nice job!!

If you look at the other skier you also see the inside foot pull back. Both of these Carvers? are obviously paying attention to correct foot use.
Great counter with inside hip lead on the second skier.
This type of inside foot position pays off later on snow.
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What is going on here

Postby SkierSynergy » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:12 am

Here is another carver shot. compare this to the other shots. What is going on and why?

I think this is a very common issue that has been touched upon lately. Here is a chance to discuss it with an example.

By the way I have to thank Rick for agreeing to let me post the images for discussion.

Image
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Re: What is going on here

Postby Sidney » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:52 pm

Hi Jay,

Early counter and lots of counter balance setting up high C. Rick's got some serious angles there on the carvers!

At first I thought it was a turn with a overly high inside arm, but it looks like he's just exagerrating to practice getting an early edge engagement.

Or am I way off the mark?

Sid


SkierSynergy wrote:Here is another carver shot. compare this to the other shots. What is going on and why?

I think this is a very common issue that has been touched upon lately. Here is a chance to discuss it with an example.

By the way I have to thank Rick for agreeing to let me post the images for discussion.

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what is going on

Postby SkierSynergy » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:45 pm

Hey Sidney

yeah, those are some impressive angles on the carvers! Anyone who spends time on the pavement knows that is real commitment. Going down on carvers is not at all like going down on snow.

If you look at the counter balance and the counter action of this shot and compare it with the first shot that started the thread there is a definite difference. I am holding off just saying so that there can be some practice seeing things. Before just jumping in with any recommendations or evaluative judgements, I think it's useful to just try to describe what is going on and how the description is arrived at -- what, in detail, do you see that supports the description.
Using a descriptive rubric of feet, legs, hips, torso, what do you see when comparing Ricks first shot (and also Diana's pic) and Rick#2 ?

Example: If you say his feet are tipped more, what do you see that makes you think so?

The outside wheels of the stance carver are higher off the pavement, etc.

Questions: If you say he is counter balanced more what do you see that makes you think so?

If you say he is counter acting more/earlier, what do you see that makes you think so?

There is one issue that Rick is working on related to all this. It is in the earlier pic, but it is more obvious in the second pic.
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Postby Sidney » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:32 am

Hi Jay,

So we're trying to pick up external cue's to determine whether a certain movement has come into play?

With Ricks countering the give away is because his back not facing the same direction as the tail of his skis would be. Same with the picture of Diana. The other thing is that is right arm is leading significantly more than his left when compared to the direction of his carvers (looking forward).

I think that his counter balancing is early and strong given by the fact that right elbow is higher than his left. It's probably more than required but I would be doing it too to make sure I dont eat the pavement. It would be extremely difficult to get that kind of angle on the carvers without some physical compensation like his counter balancing without throwing him off balance.

Is the other issue what Harald mentioned? The inside hip lead?

One other thing, are Rick's knees getting a a bit too close on that 2nd picture? or is it just the angle of the knee pad and photo?
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Postby Harald » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:47 pm

Very good angles, many Carver users would love to get these angles.

If Rick could unhook his spine from his pelvis the counter thing would be working.
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Postby Max_501 » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:48 pm

Harald wrote:If Rick could unhook his spine from his pelvis the counter thing would be working.


Harald, could you eplain this in more detail?
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