World Cup Tech Update

[h.harb]

For someone who starts one degree inside of center to begin with, moving them 4 degrees outside would almost put them out and off the outside edge of the boots. I don’t think Ligety is anywhere near there. But Byggmark may well be 3 degrees outside of center.

[Bolter]

This is one of those threads that prove "MORE INFO NO BS." Thanks for the insight into these WC skiers setups.

[h.harb]

Thanks Bolter, your opinion is highly regarded here.

You are definitely made of the "more info No BS attitude".

[WNYSkier]

Harald,

This is a great thread and I'd like to keep it going. A comment and a question:

I just caught up on my reading and saw Ron LeMaster's most recent article in Ski Racing. Interesting that the frames selected in the photo montages seem to skip critical parts of the transition and high-c phase of the turn. This probably isn't a sin of omission, but one of negligence. He doesn't see what is happening if it doesn't fit into his frame of understanding. Hence his multiple references to inclination as the means of creating early edge pressure.....If you watch Matt using Dartfish you get a very different view from Ron's interpretation.

My question carries over from a good thread in January generated by Heluva Skier's earlier posting of his SL MA. You provided a wonderfully concise description of movements from low-c through release and transition into solid edge contact and early direction in high-c for SL turns. Would you be able to compare that movement sequence to a modern GS turn? Specifically, when the current GS courses are set with large offsets, how do the athletes adapt timing and technique to accomodate the longer delay between turns and the resulting challenges to carrying energy from one turn to the next?

Cheers,
Mark

[h.harb]

Thanks Mark,

I'd love to address this topic, I'm in the middle of a camp at Big Sky right now, but as soon as I get back, I'll look over your request and give you an evaluation. Thank you for your efforts of looking into the transitions of World Cup skiers in more depth than most can understand.

[tarnaby]

Here's one with the hand in the snow a no no!!

in the snow a no no!!

Yeah - definitely a no-no. Not only can it throw off lateral balance if that low inside hand is driving movement of the inside of the body (shoulders/hips), but when you put a hand down at the speeds you travel at in a carve it really can pull (twist) your upper body into the hill very aggressively. The implications or having it hit snow can be pretty severe.
Later
Greg

I find this thread very interesting. With a hand in the snow being a no no, I've always wondered what the point of drills like the one below with Hailey Duke of the USST. Why do they drill getting their inside hand down on the snow? Is it to practice recoveries? I see this drill all the time on the hill. What is the purpose of that drill? Won't it lessen CB/CA in a big way? Here is the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzwb4rsmLBo

[BigE]

As I see the purpose, it is to provide and external cue so that the skier knows they have inclined to a high degree. If they can easily touch the snow, they are doing it right.

The drill is a lateral balance exercise.

[Kiwi]

I am embarrassed that this clip has the words New Zealand attached to it.

This is all bad. How can it be a drill for lateral balance when all the drill does is throw everything out of balance?

You can see the upper body developing rotational movement as the hand and hip drop, next the skis are moving in and out simply so that the inside leg is being used as a prop, then follows an ILE to up unweight for the transition.

Notice how the inside arm is back level with the hip and the skier effectively square to the skies for almost the whole turn. In order to keep this all together the skier achieves inside hip lead but only through extreme tip lead.

It reminds me of the disasterous kids drill the "airplane" where the inside arm (wing) goes down through the turn.

[Max_501]

WC GS tech. BIG flex to release:



HH comments:

The alignment on this set up on Rossingnol is much better than the set up she has now in 2010 on Head. She may have had a great year with the Olympics, but she has to be very discouraged about her slalom and GS results. She used to dominate Slalom with Reisch. This poor season in slalom is directly related to her Head boot set up, which is terrible for technical events.

[BigE]

I am embarrassed that this clip has the words New Zealand attached to it.

This is all bad. How can it be a drill for lateral balance when all the drill does is throw everything out of balance?

You can see the upper body developing rotational movement as the hand and hip drop, next the skis are moving in and out simply so that the inside leg is being used as a prop, then follows an ILE to up unweight for the transition.

Notice how the inside arm is back level with the hip and the skier effectively square to the skies for almost the whole turn. In order to keep this all together the skier achieves inside hip lead but only through extreme tip lead.

It reminds me of the disasterous kids drill the "airplane" where the inside arm (wing) goes down through the turn.

Looks ok by me.

[Max_501]

Looks ok by me.

What looks OK? The lack of CB or the lack of CA?

[BigE]

The drill.

[Icanski]

I'm surprised at how wide the stance is at neutral in that montage. Is it possibly due to a bit of recovery?

BTW, the "airplane drill" they do here with kids is that they put arms out like wings and lean to the outside, over the stance leg. But usually the kids lean inside because to them, and correctly so, an airplane drops the inside wing as it banks. It's a case of giving them the wrong image for what you want them to do. Like Pizza and french fries...why do they think a kid can't understand the terms wedge and parallel? They get it in school.

Icanski

[BootsCanyon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjNakiTsG4E

I could be wrong, but I think that's from 08?? If it is, I think the sequence is roughly seconds 42-44 of the youtube clip. Harald's commented on her alignment before, but at neutral the stance really isn't so wide imo.

[BigE]

Like Pizza and french fries...why do they think a kid can't understand the terms wedge and parallel? They get it in school.

Icanski

They can understand wedge and parallel.... it's just way more fun to say pizza and french fries.