Why teaching the wedge doesn't work

[jclayton]

Ott,
there's the crux of the problem . A rank beginner sees a hipswiveler serenading himself down the slope and thinks he's a god and that Wedeln is the ultimate technique . He's not going to see the light until after many seasons of bruises to his body and ego .

But then some states still wont teach Evolution so what can we do .

By the way watch out , you seem to be softening under Johns blitzkreig .

[Ott Gangl]

>>>> A rank beginner sees a hipswiveler serenading himself down the slope and thinks he's a god and that Wedeln is the ultimate technique .<<<<

Oh, I don't know, the Austrians won most of the races years ago with their wedel technique. Even today it looks sooo slinky and if beginners want to ski like that to have fun, more power to them.


John is just wearing me down, he wants to convert me to stuff I already know


....Ott

[*skier_j]

John, None of that matters as much as getting Otts drink wrong!!

It is 3rd Manhattan.

not

3rd Martini!

[Ott Gangl]

Thanks, skier_j, that's important, among other things, I like my drinks on the sweet side

....Ott, just call me 'Old Swivelhips"

This is me swivelhipping:

http://home.neo.rr.com/ottmar/ottwed.gif

[*skier_j]

Ott,

You are welcome.

Maybe I can buy you a manhattan in January at 7 springs?

[John Mason]

did they set a date? Last I heard the place and date was still fluid.

Ott, are you going to 7 springs?

(If I go it'll be 3 weekends in a row on a ski trip - week before is a-basin all mountain camp - week after is aspen for 5 days)

But, if your going, I can pick you up as akron is on the way. (if I'm going)

[Ott Gangl]

We are planning to go to Seven Springs for that weekend and more.

Thanks John, but we go by RV and probably will stay for 4-5 days, depending on the weather. No mahattens while I'm driving...I'm having one now, as I do most days as a before dinner drink, usually one, but if you drive me nuts with your posts I'll drink some more because your posts get much clearer after a couple drinks, they must sharpen my perception , you think?

.....Ott

[jclayton]

Ott,
Lovely swivelling , the only thing missing are the tight pants

[Eddy]

Been gone for a week and look at what hell has broken. I don?t wish to smear anything in anyone?s face, but I think the videos prove the points I was trying to bring forward last week. The skiers in the video, again I don?t know who they are, but they seem from all the posts and hoopla to be some mucky mucks in PSIA. They don?t ski like racers that would want to ski any modern race courses. I?m not saying they should.

They don?t ski anything like Harald or Diana. You may have gathered, I have a great deal of respect for their skiing and it is based on performance, not subjective evaluation. I will leave it at that, except for my last dig at Ott. I am amazed you can tell any difference in Harald?s right turn from his left turns but you can?t tell the difference between Harald?s skiing and those skiers on the video. I can only guess it must have to do with the time of day you are doing the analysis. Hopefully not after one of John?s posts, because I know you always go for another Manhattan right about that time?.. and you were telling SCSA to take a relaxer treatment, who needs one now?

[Ott Gangl]

Hey Eddy, you can't get any more relaxed than I am, all the time, after all I'm retired, 72 years old and ski for fun.

The comparascence of the skiers in the videos and Harald's skiing under the same circumstances, that is, teaching an intermediate class how to make rounded turns is fair. Looking at Harald's on-line instruction video of the same level of instruction I see that his are very different in stance and initiaion but they are not very dynamic, and why should they be? He is teaching students at that level.

So I would say that the look is different but both HH and Rob Sogard or weems are solid and go exactly where they want to go without losing control.
Weems, who in his present job as head of the Snowmass ski school mostly sits behind a desk, admits in the thread that he needs more ski time, good for him.

I certainly respect most everyone on this forum and also on epic, sometimes someone may get overzealos or better said, overenthusiastic in proclaiming there is only one way to learn and one way to ski, something that even HH doesn't claim. I have no problem with someone claiming that PMTS is the 'best' way to learn. For skiers who had success with it it is and there should be no problem with that.

But there are also skiers who had success with the traditional method and there should not be deragatory remarks made about them just because they preferred the traditional way.

I have made ten or more pleas to just quit that war with words and I thank Harald for his post calling on the same.

.........Ott

[jclayton]

Look at Hannes Schneider in the old films , he really rocked on planks .

[Eddy]

So Ott, tell me how snowboarders, who can't stem or wedge do it at slow speed?

PMTS has a two footed release that uses a float between gradual progressive edge engagements. If you add wide skis, you are on your way without having a clue about a wedge, steering or rotary movements. The time has come to acknowledge modern skiing movements, time to let go of the weddle.

I think if we put you in a time capsule and bring you back with amnesia, you would love to ski parallel on wide skis without knowing what a wedge is.

Remember Tradition is the enemy of progress. Where did I read that?

[BigE]

See: http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jar/NABE21-30.html

"The school at Ganado, Arizona, on the Navajo Reservation used to have a sign at its entrance reading "Tradition is the Enemy of Progress." "

The motto identifies the goal to erase the Navajo traditions and replace them with our own, as if the Navajo traditions should be erased. Startling that you should quote that in support of PMTS!

[milesb]

The snowboarders yank the board into a skid with their upper bodies.

[Eddy]

Poor snowboarders, yes, but it is still better than using a wedge.

Tradition is PSIA and every other nation's wedge based system. They fight progress holding back the growth of their own industry, with tradition.

I agree this is an unfortunate quote if misused, as in the reference to the NAVAJO nation, but my reference was not in that context and was definitely not supporting the part it played in evolution of the NAVAJO culture or nation.

Still I stick to the quote, in more ways than not, tradition can be the enemy of progress. It doesn't mean progress has to erase culture. Progress and traditional culture can grow and progress together if people of vision are guiding the process. If you want to be stubborn about tradition and hold on to every aspect in spite of the world changing around you, you maybe hurting your people. There are many nations in Europe who hold onto their culture, but have modernized to stay competitive and provide a good life for their people.