Learning PMTS with a Coach: A Video Diary

[BigE]

Fat side in.

[Max_501]

Day 1:



After warming up for a run or two it was clear that both of Rob's knees were dropping to the inside. Before we started testing with shims we took some video of Rob skiing straight on a flat slope. After this we started with 2 degree shims placed so they tipped the knees out. This didn't make much of a difference so we went to 3 degrees. Some of the skiing footage from Day 1 is 2 degrees on one side and nothing on the other and then 3 degrees on one side and nothing on the other. This is because we lost one of each shim during filming but didn't know that we had lost the shims until after we filmed. The final couple of clips were filmed without shims (we got tired of having them fall out and decided to finish the day without them). The 3 degree shims helped but weren't enough to correct the knees falling into the turn. So, Rob needs a greater degree of canting offered by the shims or there is something going on with the footbeds (or a combination of the two).

As we skied I was building a mental list of items that would need to be addressed: aft and squatty stance, tipping, an occasional extension movement at/or immediately after the release, CB and CA, flexing/extension range of motion, inside foot tipping and pull back, stance width, arm/hand usage.

We worked on various drills throughout the day as we tested the shims. Most of the video is shot after a specific drill with a focus on a single movement.

We did some tipping drills, fore/aft drills, flexing/extension drills, and the boot touch drills that work both flexing and CB. Didn't worry too much about CA and arm/hand usage other than as needed for the boot touch drills. We worked a bit on narrowing the stance. We did try some one footed drills but the knock kneed stance caused a balance loss making these less productive.

Rob had an easy time with tipping but many of the other drills were challenging, especially the fore/aft drills and the flexing/extension drills. Overall I would say Day 1 was on the frustrating side for Rob. As you begin to replace inefficient movements with the new PMTS movements they often feel odd or wrong. I addition, sometimes folks that have learned mainly from the books/DVDs have been practicing PMTS movements incorrectly. This is why its important to get video to confirm the PMTS movements are correct. It takes many runs before the correct PMTS movements begin to feel normal. So, day 1 was taking a big step back to fundamentals and then building from there.

We reviewed video at lunch, before dinner, and also looked at the PMTS books/DVDs a bit.

[MonsterMan]

Here's another hint: in my MA in the other section of the forum, Harald suggests putting 3-4mm of shims under the toe pieces of my bindings. We didn't have the capability of doing that, but Harald was on the right track. There should definitely be huge bonus points for anyone guessing what we found. I don't think we should maintain this suspense for very long, but we want to give people a chance to think through the alignment problems and solutions as you are doing.

Freeflex Pro 14 bindings, are they on a rail like the railflex?

Had you played with lifting the toe piece or not?

Had anyone played around inside the boot? i.e. with the base board?

[kirtland]

I have been experimenting with my cants at the end of this year. I have ended up with putting the cants in the opposite way of which makes any sense to me, and opposite to the way I've used them in the past. I don't know how or why it works better. I don't see how I can gain a better edge on both inside edges (LTE & BTE), have an easier release and engagement and improve my fore and aft stance. But, I do. So I wonder, Did you experiment with putting the cants both ways? Even though, it doesn't seem to make sense.

Do you address tilting the bottom of the Pelvis forward so it lines up with the femur? It looks like Idahorob does that more in some of his skiing and is conscious of it and doesn't so much in other parts of his skiing. Although it is not very clear because there are so few side shots.

Also, did you address slicing the ski through the turn? I ask because in Idahorob's earlier videos it looked like he was more passive and riding the outside ski until the turn was finished, in this video he is slicing through the turns more and actively finishing the turns more. Or did this come about as a result of alignment, or doing other drills for fore and aft balance.
Kirtland

[idahorob]

Overall I would say Day 1 was on the frustrating side for Rob.

I was paying the price for not having immediate feedback as I tried to learn PMTS the last couple of years. There were things I'd misinterpreted, other things I didn't understand, and a lot of stuff I just plain did wrong. And I went a long ways in the wrong direction without knowing it. A major example was the timing of flexing, tipping, and lengthening the outside leg in the turn. I had been doing this the wrong way and I couldn't even describe what it was I thought I'd been doing. I was off in timing and understanding with flex-to-release. I had a little up move to transfer balance that I didn't know I had.

To build correct movements we had to tear down the incorrect ones - the ones I'd practiced so hard to get! And it seemed that whenever I'd focus on one thing, something else would drop out. If I focused on pulling the feet back, I'd delay tipping too long, for example. Then the extension might not happen, or the timing was way off. But, frustrated or not, I appreciated the day and I learned. I always say it's as important to know what NOT to do as it is to know what TO do. I had no lack of material in that regard.

[Max_501]

So I wonder, Did you experiment with putting the cants both ways? Even though, it doesn't seem to make sense.

No experimenting necessary. If the knees drop in then the cants are placed so they tip the knee to the outside.

Do you address tilting the bottom of the Pelvis forward so it lines up with the femur?

Rob is a movement specialist so he may have made that change as we worked through the drills and he received feedback and watched video.

Also, did you address slicing the ski through the turn? I ask because in Idahorob's earlier videos it looked like he was more passive and riding the outside ski until the turn was finished, in this video he is slicing through the turns more and actively finishing the turns more. Or did this come about as a result of alignment, or doing other drills for fore and aft balance.

Likely a result of the alignment and drills.

[Max_501]

Day 2 we were greeted with a winter storm at the mountain. It was cold, windy, and snowing hard. All the runs had plenty of pow on them making the drills more challenging. The camera was having difficulty staying in focus due to the low visibility so we didn't shoot much video. To avoid having the shims fall out we taped 3 degree shims under the bottom of the heel area of both boots (tipping the knee out).

Day 2:

[MonsterMan]

Could the left knee go another half degree?

[Max_501]

Could the left knee go another half degree?

From the Day 1 detail post:

The 3 degree shims helped but weren't enough to correct the knees falling into the turn. So, Rob needs a greater degree of canting offered by the shims or there is something going on with the footbeds (or a combination of the two).

[meput]

I've been enjoying the discussion. I don't think I have the PMTS experience to identify the single most important movement to help Rob's skiing, which is what Max has obviously been doing (along with addressing alignment). A couple of things do come to mind as I watch the videos.

What is Rob's goal for signing up to have 4 days of private coaching by Max? Where are we trying to go with this exercise. Don't get me wrong, I would love to do what Rob did. But if I was in Rob's shoes, I would have certain expectations/goals that I would measure the success of the time and money spent.

Day 2 video shows real improvement in alignment. The A frame (knock-kneed) is significantly reduced. I suspect MonsterMan's observation may reflect the video orientation because both knees look like they may still be in.

Day 2 video shows Rob still in the aft position. I need to defer to those with much more knowledge than myself, but I think this is a limiting aspect to Rob's skiing. If it is alignment, this needs to be addressed. If movement, exercises to improve should help. Once fore/aft improved, suspect this will help home base position with better hand location, slight up movement at transition and ability to tip. I am impressed with the improvement in the second portion of the video with carrying the poles horizontally: less up movement at transition, better CB & CA. I think carrying the poles helped with the fore/aft. Did Rob do the pole push drill keeping the pole tips in front of the boots, forcing him into a forward position?

[Max_501]

What is Rob's goal for signing up to have 4 days of private coaching by Max? Where are we trying to go with this exercise. Don't get me wrong, I would love to do what Rob did. But if I was in Rob's shoes, I would have certain expectations/goals that I would measure the success of the time and money spent.

Oh, I didn't charge Rob a dime so he definitely got his money's worth! (Although Rob graciously provided Feldenkrais lessons in the evening which was great!) I will let Rob tell you what he hoped to gain from the coaching. This thread is open to all of PMTS arm chair coaches that would like to try their hand at interactive MA/coaching. Its just another learning experience on the PMTS forums.

Day 2 video shows real improvement in alignment. The A frame (knock-kneed) is significantly reduced. I suspect MonsterMan's observation may reflect the video orientation because both knees look like they may still be in.

Unfortunately both knees still drop in quite a bit.

Day 2 video shows Rob still in the aft position. I need to defer to those with much more knowledge than myself, but I think this is a limiting aspect to Rob's skiing.

I agree completely and we did much work in this area.

Once fore/aft improved, suspect this will help home base position with better hand location...

I will add more detail shortly, but Rob's hands seem to have a mind of their own!

[idahorob]

Here are some photos of my skinny legs. Hard to believe those things propel my bike up steep mountains. The static poses are single pics; the flexing motions are shot at 3.5 frames per second.

[meput]

Max,
Where do I sign up for my 4 days of free PMTS coaching?
Jim

[Max_501]

Day 2:

Due to the harsh weather we stayed on the lower lifts for most of the day which meant mainly flat green terrain. We took advantage of this and spent the time working on tipping, flexing, CA/CB, and homebase work. This was a heavy drill day with very little skiing. By the end of the day tipping was going very well. Flexing range of motion was increasing but the timing was still not quite right and there was still an extension that would 'pop up' every so often. CA/CB were coming along nicely. Homebase was challenging because the hands would do their own thing. Because of this we started to hold the poles lengthwise with both hands. The idea was to hold the poles so you have the homebase arm width and then to keep them in front of the body and keep the poles level at all times. This worked well for Rob and we used it quite a bit over the next couple of days. Overall another challenging/frustrating day for Rob as we continued to rebuild his skiing.

[HighAngles]

Wow, the leg shots and video did not show what I was expecting at all. I thought we would see much more medial knee travel, but I think the problem is that Rob was standing duck foot both in the bare feet shots and in the ski boots during the flexing. When reviewing the path the knees take its important to ensure that your feet are lined up properly. Add a large square and a marker dot on the center of knee mass in the video and then we can really see what's going on.