Dodge boot report

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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby h.harb » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:44 am

Geoff is right, I forgot about beer!

And I didn't know Tiger Woods skied, so it's hard to know if he would benefit from Carbon boots.


I know that among your goals for Harb Ski Systems is supporting world class athletes,


That's a new one on me, I use "World class athletes", to demonstrate how they could benefit recreational skiers, but it's a stretch to say my goal is to support WC skiing, because I don't believe we do it, (trying to represent what my goals are or the goals of Harb Ski Systems or PMTS, is a tricky business, unless you know me very well) to say we; PMTS, HSS, or HH supports world cup athletes or WC skiing, is false.
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby Erik » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:16 pm

h.harb wrote:A
Other players on the tour can't play with Tiger's equipment, who can?


I heard there were several ladies who used Tiger's equipment for recreational purposes. Oh wait..some of them were pros.
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby h.harb » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:11 am

If you start experimenting around with too much new equipment, it can really hurt your game.
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby brendonc » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:46 pm

Erik wrote:
h.harb wrote:A
Other players on the tour can't play with Tiger's equipment, who can?


I heard there were several ladies who used Tiger's equipment for recreational purposes. Oh wait..some of them were pros.



I'll pay that! :mrgreen:
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby h.harb » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:07 pm

Skied today at Loveland, got some compliments on my turns, by seasoned racers. It was my first day out this year. I felt remarkably balanced for a first day outing. Strong edge feel and hold was the other remarkable reference I can come up with. No pain in my Dodge boots, skied at least three hours.

Look, I'm not pushing Dodge boots on anyone, I have much better margins with regular boots. For those who can take advantage of a Dodge boot: I'll help you. But I'd rather sell you a Nordica or Head, from a business income perspective.
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby fredm8 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:55 am

h.harb wrote:Skied today at Loveland, got some compliments on my turns, by seasoned racers. It was my first day out this year. I felt remarkably balanced for a first day outing. Strong edge feel and hold was the other remarkable reference I can come up with. No pain in my Dodge boots, skied at least three hours.

Look, I'm not pushing Dodge boots on anyone, I have much better margins with regular boots. For those who can take advantage of a Dodge boot: I'll help you. But I'd rather sell you a Nordica or Head, from a business income perspective.


And that's probably the biggest statement that you could make Harald.
Douglas


From the land of the long white cloud, a land down under.
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby h.harb » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:16 pm

Another day on the slopes, I'm starting to feel my skiing. It normally takes me about three to four days before everything begins to feel like second nature. Biggest issue is fore/aft balance. Finding just how much advance you need ahead of the feet, in the arc with the hips, is critical. I find I get bounced back off the front of the boots during my first few days. I know my boots are stiff, but I also know that with the right foot back to hip alignment; I can hold myself forward. That sensation seems to go away during the summer.
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby arothafel » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:12 pm

Conditions today at Mt. Villa Park: "STICKY!" I am so jealous of whoever is already skiing! Freakin' global warming in my neighborhood!

Image
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby h.harb » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:19 pm

Come to Colorado we would have fun.
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby Mac » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:38 am

Killington is open here in New England. Now I've just got to get off my butt and get up there. I'm still squeezing all I can out of bike season.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byxMLXAD1C4
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby Mac » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:45 am

h.harb wrote:Come to Colorado we would have fun.

Be careful of what you wish for :P
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby geoffda » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:36 am

Somebody stopped me on the hill today to ask how I liked my Dodge boots. The word is getting out...
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby Max_501 » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:06 am

What happens when a race boot wants to be a freestyle boot?

http://dodgeskiboots.com/blog/2010/06/0 ... ids-rebel/

Nelson Riley (racer/freestyler) had the following to say about the Dodge:

Stiff vs. Rigid
The boots are fairly stiff out of the box in terms of fore-aft stiffness, but that can be dialed back by loosening the bolts that attach the upper shell to the lower shell and keeping the buckles loose. I have mine set up with a little less forward lean than out of the box for jumping. The boots are comparable to any other all mountain ski boot in this respect (not a super soft park-specific boot, but nothing out of the ordinary for stiffness either... no big "OUCH").

The thing that makes the boots special is the rigidity. Carbon translates everything you feel in normal ski boots with less interference, because the carbon vibrates at a higher frequency than plastic. On snow, everything feels dampened because any vibration is so fast & tight (if you picture a wavelength) that you don't even really feel it. To me it feels like my skis are sharper and I have to do less to initiate the turn. You wouldn't have imagined there was so much slop in plastic boots until you go back to them; that really surprised me. In challenging conditions like bumps, trees, or steeps, the boots are an advantage because there is less lag time between the decision to turn and the turn itself. This can also free up some more bandwidth in the nervous system to say, anticipate a cork 7 off the cliff you are approaching.

And yes the light weight is great in the air or for skinning/mountaineering, and less thermal mass makes them warmer.
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby jbotti » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:03 pm

I will add a couple of things that learned and observed about the boots. First off I think almost everyone will be going down a size in these. I ski the Heads in the 27 size which is a 313mm boot sole length. Doing a shell fit in the dodge, my foot pretty much exactly fit lengthwise in the Dodge 26 which is a 305mm boot sole length. Because the CF is so thin (vs thick plastic on a traditional plug boot) a 305mm boot sole lngth has about the same amounf of space inside as does the 313mm BSL with thick plastic. The 8mm difference is the width of the plastic both front and back. Being able to ski a smaller BSL is always considered an advantage and does come with better quickness, better leverage and therfore better performance. The downside in just about filling up the entire boot lengthwise is that there was not a lot of room left to get into the boot. Harald did show me the technique for getting into the boot, but the CF is real stiff and it is really hard to pull the bear claw apart to makes some extra space to get the foot in. Mine is not the most flexible foot and one with better flexibility (like Diana's or Harald's) is easier to get in. Definitely one of the harder boots to get into that I have ever tried.

I did not love the stock liner and I was surprised that my Nordica Foam liner fit in. I found this to be a major improvement and after sitting in them for 5-10 minutes or so, they were actually quite comfortable. I would say that the last in the boot is around 98mm which is about where I have no hot spots. I skied the boot for about two hours with no pain or hot spots and we had done no punching or grinding in the boot (or whatever you would do in place of this with CF). I am a natural B width and on one foot I have a bone protruding which makes that foot almost a C width, but both feet are low volume.

As for stiffness, it is actually pretty easy to regualte the flex of the boots with the buckles. You can get a real stiff feel by tightening the buckles and a much less stiff fell by leaving the buckles with much less tension. I did not ski the boot off piste, but my sense is that it will ski just fime there especially if you loosen buckle tension. When you do come up upon the front of the boot, there is very little give. It is solid and it stays that way in all temps. I would say that when pressing against the front of the boot it is no stiffer than my 130 boots on a cold day (very little give in either boot) amd much stiffer than my 130's on a warm day. Again I will say thet boot does not ski ultra stiff when the buckles have less tension.

I think ultimately I will have a foam liner done specifically for these boots. I think harald is heading in the same direction. With my current foam liners I had a little more room in and around the ankle and heel than I want and I think a foam liner foamed in these boots would take up that space.

As for how they skied, as I said in a different post, it was almost impossible to tell with the way they were set up while I was skiing (alignment issues were not sufficiently corrected). I did have a few a wow moments but I was fighting the set up so much that I never was able to open things up.

I will say that for the right skier, one who does not need much flex in a boot, my guess is that these boots will ski off piste just fine, and may also be an improvement over plastic boots because of the big weight difference. again they never felt crazy stiff or unforgiving in any way.

Looking forwrad to skiing them when we dial in the set up. I will post my thoughts when we get there.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: Dodge boot report

Postby h.harb » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:47 am

My take on Dodge Boots is different from Riley's. First I would not make them softer, no need just fine if your stance is correct, you don't have to push on the front of the boot. I absorb any impact with knee flexing anticipation. If you can do Dolphin Turns in the boot you don't have any issues with bumps. There are four or five runs in the new DVD with Dolphin Turns on Dodge Boots.
Geoffda says if you can do "Dolphin Turns", you don't need to practice them, because you are probably already a pretty good bump skier. Now, just think of that comment in reverse. If you can't do Dolphin Turns, "You probably suck in the bumps" Geoffda.

I find the advantages with the "Carbon Monocoque" shell are: low mass, which relates to low inertia, which relates to easy tipping. Also, once you release the ski, the transition is so much easier. I find that the low heel in the boot shell translates to extra power to the ski, because you can get pressure transferred to the heel much earlier without the ski jetting forward. This is a huge difference to a boot with average ramp. Normal boots want to jet forward if you put heel pressure to them too early in the turn, so you have to keep your feet back. You can't lower boot boards much anymore in normal boots because the bottom of the mold won't let you lower the heel on the boot board or Zeppa.

Beside the obvious lack of vibration and deflection of the carbon shell boot , I find the lower heel feel, changes the radius for ankle side to side movements, making it seasier. Lots of discovery, yet to be made.
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