Whistler/Blackcomb PMTS Tech Camp

[Ihamilton]

Hi my friends. I am hoping you can give some confirmation or correction on my tipping teaching. My friend Anton was just at a CSIA on snow update. Anton is a confirmed PMTS supporter and was at the November short turns camp. I teach him on Wednesday's, the same group as Nikki.Anton told me that the level4 leading his group was teaching a flexed release but his instructions were to bring the skis to flat and then swing the downhill knee down the hill and to keep that knee leading into the turn. Anton said he was clear that it is the knee that is to initiate the turn. I told Anton that this is close but not correct.
At the ABasin tech camp HH told us to tip with the feet not the knees. I have read and re read the tipping chapter in Essentials. On Tuesday, the dry land day, I am going to start my clients in stocking feet sitting in the edge of their chair and have them tip their feet and hold their knees as described on page 29. Figure 2-3 shows H and in the middle frame his knees have hardly moved but clearly his feet have tipped. I am going to tell the clients that it is wrong to just swing the knee out because the foot should be tipped more than the knee. If the feet are tipped first the knee will go out, as in the bottom frame in F.2-3 but the feet are ahead. I interpret F2-3, middle frame as being there because H doesnt want us to just push out the knee, otherwise the middle frame and exercise on p29 wouldnt be there.The CSIA is teaching what Anton has reported to me and I am anticipating a comment from an observer in the order of " just swing the knee, it is easier and the same result." I am not looking to argue with an observer but if I am right I will hold my ground. I will explain that this is one difference between CSIA and PMTS and as this is a fundamentals PMTS camp I am teaching the correct PMTS method. I will have to add that these movements will make better turns so my clients know my thoughts, but I don't need to over play that because that is why they paid the bucks to come.
I am not having a heart attack. I am being as thorough as I can be in my preparation. I was a lawyer for 31 years and the best way to defend an attack was always hours of prep and a cool delivery showing why the questioner was wrong. I would actually welcome such a question. It would give me an opportunity to explain the difference of approaches and to invite the questioner to sit down on a chair and do the drill with me. That drill is hard to do at first. It takes a lot of focus. I am not trying to show that i am smart, just very well prepared.
My wife has been my "client" for this lesson prep and she says it has improved her skiing and it has improved mine.
Let me know if there are things you think I should consider or any other comments.

[BigE]

If the observer suggests doing otherwise, mention to him *in private* that the CSIA advocates that "first ankles then knees then hips" move into the turn.

Then stick to your guns to always lead with foot tipping; it's the right approach. It's not just about the legs...

My personal favorite line:

"Tipping actions of the feet and legs activate the kinetic chain and encourage the body to maintain balance."

-- HH from The Essentials of Skiing page 4.

[milesb]

Knee first is a twisting movement.

[CRM.OZ]

Really enjoyed reading your posts Irwin - and best of luck for the camp.
I have been reading about Harald and PMTS since the first camps at Fernie many years ago and have taken a passive approach with the forum until now.
Reading your posts have promoted me to offer my 2 cents worth.
After reading and working through the books and DVD's I think many of us need to remind ourselves what Harald actually means when he talks about the "Kinetic chain".
Big E is spot on by quoting Harold from "The Essentials" book.

My interpretation of the Kinetic chain is -movements that must always begin in the feet and ankles, that allow the other parts of the body (legs, knees, upper body) to
move into certain positions, thus creating a skeletal stack. The skeletal stack then allows the body's weight / mass to be directed down to influence the skis, instead of
hard muscular effort.

In reference to the exercise of sitting in a chair and tipping the feet, try the opposite example, keep the feet flat on the ground and without lifting either side of the foot notice
how much travel the knee can make from left to right without influencing the foot. (I can move my knees at least 6 inches side to side without moving my foot off the floor!)
In doing so notice the twist or rotation higher up the leg.

[HighAngles]

I have found a huge difference in the actual edging power that gets applied when you use foot tipping versus just leg movements. I showed this to a few non-PMTS skiers last season and you could see the light bulbs going on in their heads. Strong tipping with the feet ensures strong edging for your skis. Amazing how this stuff just works.

[geoffda]

There are a number of problems with leading with the knees. The primary problem is that the knee is a hinge joint and the only way you can "tip" with it is by twisting the femur. If you try to lead from the knee, the tendency will be to drive it inward, which puts a torquing force on the knee that is painful and puts undue stress on the joint. What you may end up with is the knee pointing in a different direction than your feet. If you lead with the feet, however, you avoid this problem and the femur will rotate the right amount without putting stress on the knee. Especially for your seniors, it is absolutely critical to start all tippng actions with the feet.

The second problem with leading with the knees is that the feet don't have to follow immediately. You can apply a considerable amount of twist before the feet have to tip. As a result, leading with the knees results in sliding skis, rather than strong edging movements. The inverse is also true. It is difficult to make subtle edging movements when leading with the knees.

The kinetic chain only works when you start tipping with the feet. If you do that, everything else just works. Start with the feet; always the feet (unless you are deliberately trying to destroy your knees).

[Max_501]

http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic ... =1065#wrap

http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic ... t=0#p14329

http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic ... t=0#p20867

[serious]

I have a few questions about all this:

1) In order to have a PMTS camp, do you required specific approval from Harald Harb Ski Systems?
2) Can you hold a PMTS camp without certified PMTS instructors? I ask this questions because from the original post I gather than there is no certified PMTS instructor, only CSIA instructors that participated in a PMTS camp.

Thanks

[Ihamilton]

I am always amazed at how much I learn every time I pick up the Essentials or Instructors Manual.
Last night I practiced tipping my feet without moving my knees, in our living room, page 29 of the essentials. My wife worked with me, we did it sitting to start and then standing. This morning first run on a green we tried to ski by tipping our feet but not moving our knees. I hate to brag but it felt like I was HH and watching my wife, she was making beautiful arcs with minimal movements and it was solid ice. On the first run at the ABasin tech camp HH said to warm up he often does a run making as little movement as possible and I noticed then that his feet were tipped but the lateral movement of his kness was almost non existent.
Doing the drill at home and on the snow, I noticed that trying to tip the free foot to the LTE, puts that foot into a foot inversion position, see Fig Bio 9, instructors manual. The stance foot goes into a foot eversion position. This provided instant edge grip on today's ice and it was dead easy to balance, the skis kept their arc. Most of the skiers today were slipping and skidding out of control but my wife was holding good clean arcs and looked like she wasn't doing anything.
The CSIA is now coaching a flexed release but teach that the turn should be initiated by swinging the downhill knee, down the hill and continue to have it lead through the turn. After about a half hour I decided to try the CSIA method. Whoa! I was instantly out of balance, I lost my edge grip and didn't get it back until after fall line. I tried to figure out why? This is my conclusion. When you swing the down hill knee, the knee is tipped out more than the foot with the result that the free foot is in a foot eversion position and the stance foot is in a foot inversion position, if I balanced on the LTE of the uphill foot before swinging the knees. That is exactly the opposite of the correct foot position and it requires far more movement of the knees to get the same tipping of the skis. And swinging those legs moves a lot of weight so I had to counter balance more to compensate. I sure didn't feell like HH doing that.
So then a light went off in my cranium, a dim light but a light nonetheless. I had not had the benefit of your comments then that I have now so the two thoughts I had were original and I see that I was on the right track. On Wednesday morning first run, I noticed Anton was pushing off his BTE at transition. I didn't know then that he had been to a CSIA upgrade (he is a CSIA instructor who doesn't teach, and he must do an upgrade every three years). Of course he was pushing off the BTE! If you swing the downhill knee out you don't want to have your uphill foot in an inversion position so you move it to an eversion position and the tendency is to push. The second thought concerned Nikki, who I had wrongly thought had boots too heavy because she was making so much movement to tip her feet such a small amount. Wednesday morning she had told me she had been skiing with her level 4 friend who had given her a few tips. When I was swinging the knees I didn't feel I was skiing like HH, I felt I was skiing like Nikki because I was throwing a lot of weight around and it is hard. I saw Nikki today and skied a while with her ( I could not video, Whistler was in a solid white cloud). I asked her if a tip her friend had given her was to swing her knees. Yes she had and Nikki said 'that is what I have been doing.' I got her to tip with her feet and that was a completely different picture. I told her that tomorrow I would do a lengthly drill of tipping the feet without moving the knees, sitting, standing, with out boots, with boots and send them home to do more. Boy, that TTS is toxic stuff, got to stay away from it!
Serious, you had two questions.
1. I wasn't involved with the approval but Wendell arranged it with Harald. I think the answer has to be yes.
2. We are doing it. We have Harald's confidence, I believe, both Wendell and I communicate with Harald often. I would feel a lot better if I was certified. I am mildly concerned that not all observers want us to be successful and we may get a direct question about our qualifications. I will answer truthfully. I believe that the coaching that Wendell and I are going to give these campers is better than any TTS that they have ever received (none have been to a PMTS camp), that they will become better skiers than they have ever been because of our coaching and that therefore they are getting good value for their money. We will have to wait and see what their comments are. I am thinking that this is going to be such a huge success that our problem is going to be how to accomodate the demand, likely we will have to add more camps because, at least at this time, I don't think there are other W/B coaches who could conduct the course.
Max_501, I haven't seen the videos yet. It would be great if you could come and help me coach, we can take all my classes into the black bumps, and have some fun.
Geoff and Highangles, dead on, I felt what you describe. At ABasin, Fredrico and Harald talked about the small muscle group in the foot and lower leg. Ouch, when I was using foot inversion and foot eversion correctly did I ever feel those muscles working. I have to get my personal trainer to strengthen them.
CRM.oz, thanks. I am going to bring up the knee swing tomorrow and will use the flat feet and swinging knees. There may be some 4's who will have a tough time swallowing it, but my concern is the paying customer, they need to know the difference.
Big E, I have it highlited in my book, thanks. I will have both books with me.
Milesb, I felt my legs rotating when the skis were flat as a result of the swinging knee, hence the skidding and I was only going about 5km an hour.
Thanks every body for your help! I truly mean it that I have learned a lot from you. Tomorrow I give it my best shot. you have given me a lot of confidence.

[h.harb]

Brilliant:

Irwin: Boy, that TTS is toxic stuff, got to stay away from it!

[BigE]

The CSIA way is what you get when you ignore biomechanics, the kinetic chain and look only at video and pictures. If it looks right, then is must be right.

When are they going to realize that it's already written down in The Essentials? That line I quoted is so far removed from TTS, it shows what TTS really is... appearance, not performance.
-------------

ihamilton,

When you did your morning exercises, how tight were your boots? Did you ratchet them down later or keep them loose? We're about to start another season here, and as of last season, my kids boots got ratchetted down HARD.

I know Harald has some play, question is, how tight? One finger infront?

[serious]

Thanks Irwin for the response. I have no doubt this will be a successful camp and you will have considerable demand if you continue to offer it. It sure would be nice to have such a camp at Mont Tremblant (I live in Toronto).

[h.harb]

The amount of play (tightness) you can functionally allow, in a ski boot, is directly proportional to the strength and range of controlled movement of your foot.

[BigE]

I see, weaker foot, tighter boot, stronger foot, looser boot.....makes sense. A strong foot can handle more play than a weaker foot. Thanks!

When I was a kid, I figure skated for one summer. Afterwards, I could jump on hockey skates and land properly without laces in the skates. Same effect.

[Ihamilton]

The first day of the camp was completed today. A lot of time was spent with each camper getting them to tip their feet without moving their knees. For most this was the first time they had done this movement. When shown the difference between tipping the feet by using the muscles in the foot and ankle as opposed to pushing out the knees they all focused on doing it correctly. Their range of motion was increased with practice and stretching when I would help them tip with my hands. In the end all could tip to engage and release on the incline board and hold the upside down postion. They became quite intriqued and spent a lot of time by themselves doing the foot tipping, on and off the boards. I believe we can take this basic primary movement from the gym to the snow. We will start them on an easy green.
Our guest was Harald via Facetime.