Skis getting skinnier for 2017

[Max_501]

if you like versatility, the Fischer motive 80 C-line is a very competent ski. It has excellent edge hold, responds very well to PMTS movements and has decent float. The C-line has additional carbon layers than the standard motive 80 which I found lacking on the hard snow I usually find myself skiing on.

Got video?

[speedcontrol]

The thing with the video is understandable, but the problem is that even if the skier from the video is a very weak skier, this may not nessessarily mean that the ski in question is crap and vice versa he may be a very strong pmts skier and make a bad ski work good and the people watching him may decide to buy based on what they see.

[Max_501]

The thing with the video is understandable, but the problem is that even if the skier from the video is a very weak skier, this may not nessessarily mean that the ski in question is crap and vice versa he may be a very strong pmts skier and make a bad ski work good and the people watching him may decide to buy based on what they see.

The point is that video can be used to confirm a reviewer's feelings that a ski is performing well.

A very weak skier shouldn't be reviewing skis. A strong PMTS skier is unlikely to write a positive review on a ski that doesn't reward PMTS movements.

[speedcontrol]

The thing with the video is understandable, but the problem is that even if the skier from the video is a very weak skier, this may not nessessarily mean that the ski in question is crap and vice versa he may be a very strong pmts skier and make a bad ski work good and the people watching him may decide to buy based on what they see.

The point is that video can be used to confirm a reviewer's feelings that a ski is performing well.

A very weak skier shouldn't be reviewing skis. A strong PMTS skier is unlikely to write a positive review on a ski that doesn't reward PMTS movements.

I went through the gear section,but wasn't able to find any video review of a ski so far, neither from a weak nor from a strong skier.

[Max_501]

I went through the gear section, but wasn't able to find any video review of a ski so far, neither from a weak nor from a strong skier.

That's a good observation but wasn't really my point.

[Basil j]

I haven't skied much this year due to running my business and poor snow. I juts got a go pro for my birthday and am heading up to Cannon for 5 days next week for vacation. I will do my best to get some video posted on my Fischers and on my Dynastar Chrome 74's.

[B.Mulligan]

I think what people are looking for is the broadest list of skis possible based on the impressions and knowledge of the coaches here. I think the idea that an advancing skier probably can't reliably assess the merits of ski is true. But, with the rise or return of more technical or frontside options now and next year, it'd be great to get a sense of the sort of skis, or more importantly, specific skis that are on that performance level one, or maybe the higher end of performance level two.

On Realskiers, they must have 30 or so models in the race and technical and frontside categories that they like and recommend. Do the coaches here who get to try a number of skis like any of these or promote any? On paper, I'd think the Titan would be what coaches here might like, but, they don't because it is too stiff. I have read similar complaints about all Volkl technical skis here as well. I don't doubt these reviews are correct, but like most poking around the gear forum here, I'd like to hear about the thoughts on a larger number of skis. I only get to try out a limited number of skis and I like the idea of technically proficient skis that are easier to bend and therefore better for skill learning and are more versatile. But what are these skis, even among the group of technical and frontside focused skis put out by all the manufacturers?

Also, some of the responses seem strange to me, I feel like I am sometimes stepping into the middle of an argument I don't understand or wasn't aware of.

[jbotti]

The SS Titan has been discussed here ad nauseum and that is why we are never thrilled to have another person recommend it as a great ski. I don't think its an argument but we keep re-posting the same post where we explain what this forum is designed for and why not everyone is an ideal reviewer of skis and we continue to get the same responses as if this is epic an everyone's opinion is valid.

I think if you are looking for an extensive list of great PMTS skis it will probably never exist. HH and Diana are quite particular and the selection of what the call Type 1 skis is limited. As 2017 skis become more available to demoing perhaps the list can grow.

No one wants to hear this especially not gear heads but the truth is that one good PMTS skis is really all anyone needs. I just came back from two days of skiing with Diana. We skied all over the mountain and in all kinds of snow conditions and I was on my TT80 170s and she was on here SS Speed 170s the whole time. Almost everyone skis better on these skinny skis than on wider skis that are harder to tip, bend etc. There is a reason you almost never see HH and Diana on wider skis.

[HeluvaSkier]

Unless a skier owns, and by owns—I mean can put their hip on the snow at-will while bending race stock equipment into clean arcs on steep pitches—a stiff ski will cause pushing to try to bend and release the ski and rotation of either the upper or lower body to get it to turn. For a heavy/strong skier it is almost worse because they will be able to push the stiff ski around to ‘make’ it work using ineffective movements… whereas the light skier won’t even bother because nothing they do at their current ability and weight will make the ski perform. The same can be said for a ski that locks into a radius and won’t release a turn… or one that is wide and blocks good tipping movements.

From a coaching standpoint, we are here to help those who come to this site ski better, using PMTS movements, on equipment that will make the learning process easier and more rewarding. Putting a skier on equipment that does not align with this mission is a disservice to the skier and a waste of the coach’s time. When a coach who has coached dozens, to hundreds, of PMTS students says “that ski won’t work for what you’re trying to do”—believe them.

[NoCleverName]

y we are never thrilled to have another person recommend it as a great ski.

Nobody (at least not me) ever claimed the SS-T was a "great ski". The OP wanted something to power thru the freshies (and I guess the trash that is left behind after everyone else gets there before you ). He never said anything about carving beautiful arcs on the groomed. You can't tell me I'm wrong when I say this ski can blast crud. Largely, becaue with this ski I can blast crud. And no, not with beautiful arcs and exciting rebound from a finely bent board.

You guys need to lighten up.

For a couple of reasons. First, because you "marginalize" PMTS by saying "that's not a PMTS ski". Well, very few skis are PMTS skis (whatever exactly that means). Like I said above, if you are essentially claiming "PMTS only works on these skis...for other skis, use TTS." And since most skis aren't "PMTS" skis, I guess that means it's far better to learn TTS so as to have a wider range of choices, isn't it?

I personally do not think PMTS is limited in any way to certain anointed skis. The general principles work ... even on the wide powder skis ... OK, maybe not so much on the park skis while actually IN the park . Different skis do have different uses ... and PMTS applies to most all of them.

Now, I'm not that good at PMTS (and Diana has the vid's to prove it), but I can tell you that what little sank in back in '96 or '97 was sure helpful using that original K2 Four (a ski which undoubtedly would not make the "PMTS" grade today). Basically, AOCBAES 1 was the "user manual" for anything "shaped" back then.

Signing off...have to go skiing...and it's really going to be cold. Anyone got any green wax?

[jbotti]

A.L.E. Give the SS Titan (80mm) a shot. I use it to supplement the TT80 (will go to the 2017 SS Speed as a replacement). The Titan is great in the crud and moguls yet is a decent near-slalom experience.

Great is your word. Its clear that you love the ski. Where the issue occurs is when you start recommending it to people on this forum (which you did), the PMTS gear forum which was set up and designed to help PMTS students find PMTS enabling skis (which the Titan is not). I am not sure what is so hard to grasp about this.

Enjoy the snow!

[Max_501]

I personally do not think PMTS is limited in any way to certain anointed skis. The general principles work ... even on the wide powder skis ... OK, maybe not so much on the park skis while actually IN the park . Different skis do have different uses ... and PMTS applies to most all of them.

Then you completely disagree with HH, which is your prerogative, although why you'd dismiss his expertise shared on this forum is a mystery.

Performance Level 3: Unforgiving and unfriendly ski - A ski that is difficult to ski, makes you ski poorly and forces adaptive, incorrect movements for you to be able to ski it. This is is a mess. And, what most consumers don’t know is that most skis follow this pattern regardless of brand and marketing.

[B.Mulligan]

From a coaching standpoint, we are here to help those who come to this site ski better, using PMTS movements, on equipment that will make the learning process easier and more rewarding. Putting a skier on equipment that does not align with this mission is a disservice to the skier and a waste of the coach’s time. When a coach who has coached dozens, to hundreds, of PMTS students says “that ski won’t work for what you’re trying to do”—believe them.

Yes. I like that, I choose to believe what you coaches say, so what is the equipment that aids learning, anything that is coming out in the new skinnier skis? I have heard of the Head supershape ispeed and I see this Icon TT80 talked about on these forums, is Icon a ski company or the ski name? Are there others? Are the Other Supershapes good?

[CO_Steve]

So to get back on topic (I think) what is the current mid-fat (80ish) preferred ski? Last I remembered was the Movement Jam. Good luck finding a pair of those. REV 80?

[geezer skier]

I am a long-time PMTS devotee. I recently purchased a pair of the Titans. Hated them the first day; not bad the second; and now, after a week, love them. For my 2 cents- I think skier weight has a great deal to do with liking these skis. I am a "full-bodied" (240+) skier and have no trouble bending these skis. Can carve them like crazy, very stable at high speeds, and great in crud. I'm an Eastern skier.