The PMTS approach to learning speed control for short turn.

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Re: The PMTS approach to learning speed control for short tu

Postby WNYSkier » Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:01 am

OK, I'll bite.

Would you please expand upon what you mean by "Notice the full-body angles, compared to the "Lower Body" angles" in your blog post? I can't recall having seen you use this term or delineating between full and lower body angles before.

Cheers,
M

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Re: The PMTS approach to learning speed control for short tu

Postby jbotti » Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:12 pm

We can have Harald respond when he gets around to it. In the meantime, in the first photo his hip is almost on the snow, which requires what he is calling full body angles, meaning the hip and upper body have to fully drop into the turn the get the hip close to the snow. Yes, extremely high risk. The photo below that is an exceptional turn, using just lower body angles, where the hip and upper body don't drop all the way in. Getting a high quality lower body angle SRT is accessible to all PMTS skiers. Dropping the hip onto the snow is a whole different level. For sure, everyone can ski all the most difficult terrain using the lower body angle turn. On super steep groomed terrain one will use a brushed carved arc to get speed control. If you want to ski edge lock arcs on steeps with speed control, one needs the full body angle approach. Again very high risk and probably not accessible for all skiers.

IMO, everyone should focus on getting a great SRT using lower body angles and then from there see where they go with dropping in further. But you can see from the photo and video, that lower body angle turn (done well) will take you everywhere.
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Re: The PMTS approach to learning speed control for short tu

Postby h.harb » Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:03 pm

Responding to John: Yes, on that steep a slope, I'm not going for hip on the snow as my goal. I am trying to get a "High C" upside-down early engagement with the skis and edges. I'm not after feeling pressure, that will come.

I was actually surprised at how close I was with the hip to the snow when I saw the video. In my regular skiing, my goals aren't to touch the snow with my inside hand or hip. I am actually trying to keep the hip higher on the inside relative to the outside hip. If I get the angles as demonstrated in the photo, fine, but it is not what I'm after. Hip to the snow is exciting, but not function.

I can't see how anyone would want to ski all day long with hip to the snow turns at a ski resort. It's tiring, it's hard on the body and it is not functional. Even the show skiing that you see from many of the young guys coming up, is just that, "For Show".

In fact, lately, Reilly isn't doing those turns, he has major hip problems from those turns. Notice Richie Berger doesn't go for those turns either. In the next group of slalom "World Cup" skiers like, Noel, Venazter, and even Stoltz; they are not getting low with the inside hip as Pinauralt and Gross were. It is more efficient to get the same arc and rebound with less angle, it is less physically taxing if you can make the same arc with less angle.
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Re: The PMTS approach to learning speed control for short tu

Postby h.harb » Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:11 pm

We leave for Hintertux on Tuesday. The forecast is for the snow every day for 10 days straight. I will need some powder skis. This could easily be 2 meters of snow in a week.
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Re: The PMTS approach to learning speed control for short tu

Postby h.harb » Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:22 pm

To answer the question about full-body angles vs lower body angles, it goes back to two very different turns. The lower body turns have less offset or swing each way in the turns with a traverse more across the falline. Lower body turns are more of a foot, ankle, and knee turn, with the hips staying more centered over the boots.

If you watch this video on my YouTube Channel, you can see the difference in turns. In the fourth series of turns, I am drawing out the arc and laying the body into the turn. In the rest of the runs I'm on and off the edges much quicker and there is not the curve that brings you back into the falline as with fully cared turns.

https://youtu.be/Z7_pnIPWxPQ
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Re: The PMTS approach to learning speed control for short tu

Postby h.harb » Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:37 pm

"OK, I'll bite." By WNYskier.
I don't understand your comment. aren't we all here to learn, why the condescending attitude, why the reluctant, hesitating attitude to ask about technical descriptions of skiing. What, are you above needing to learn more about skiing? That's a PSIA attitude, and it's total bullshit. Just come out and ask, "What's the difference, between the two." The reason I don't get involved as much in the forum, as I used to, is this kind of attitude, go back to the Epic Forum with that approach they love that bullshit there. Thanks to John, Max501, and others the forum keeps generating information for PMTS skiers, I appreciate their efforts, engagement, and their knowledge.
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Re: The PMTS approach to learning speed control for short tu

Postby WNYSkier » Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:09 pm

Harald,

I'm not sure how to react to your post attacking my question. It was not intended to be condescending, but an honest attempt to inquire what you were referring to in your blog post.

OK, I'll bite.

Meaning your post piqued my interest using terminology that I haven't seen in the 15 years I have been following PMTS, your books, videos, and forum.

Would you please expand upon what you mean by "Notice the full-body angles, compared to the "Lower Body" angles" in your blog post? I can't recall having seen you use this term or delineating between full and lower body angles before.


Perhaps I wasn't clear, but I'm not sure if that is substantially different in intent than:

Just come out and ask, "What's the difference, between the two."


Harald, you have helped me with my skiing and been generous in sharing your insight across many posts and PMs over the years. Diana has also been kind enough to help me with regards to understanding boot setup through her PMs. I have defended PMTS and you in many discussions with PSIA instructors and race coaches. It's unfortunate that you see fit to place me in the same category as PSIA and the old Epic forum, and that my attitude was bullshit. I'm not sure how my question could so unfortunately misconstrued and my history of support for PMTS be disregarded.
M

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Re: The PMTS approach to learning speed control for short tu

Postby h.harb » Sun Apr 17, 2022 9:10 pm

I'm sorry, but your intro statement really turned me off, even if you didn't mean it that way, it's the way it came across. I apologize for misreading your comment. I responded the way it affected me, to err is human. Not to put too a fine a point on this or belabor it, I did not accuse you of being PSIA or Epic, I stated that the attitude of the intro was such. And my question was, "are you above the need to learn?" That isn't an accusation it's a quation.
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