PMTS not Carving

PMTS Forum

PMTS not Carving

Postby Harald » Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:40 pm

I hate to disappoint those who still think PMTS is only about Carving. We like to carve yes, but we also like to ski many other ways in powder, bumps and steeps. All these ways have to do with releasing and tilting.

We have many techniques that teach high C engagement but they have nothing to do with rotary movements or steering, as you will be frustrated for a long time if you try to impliment steering and rotary movements to gain a high C turn.

I think most instructors beleive there are only two ways to make turns, steering which leads to skidding and tipping which leads to carving. Those that have that thinkning are limited in their appoaches and understanding.
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Location: Dumont

Postby Guest » Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:07 am

I hate to disappoint those who still think PMTS is only about Carving. We like to carve yes, but we also like to ski many other ways in powder, bumps and steeps. All these ways have to do with releasing and tilting.

Harald, any turn on skis, regardless of the variety, must have tilting to initiate and release to conclude. A ski will not change its direction of travel if it's not tilted and allowed to engage, it will just follow the falline to the bottom of the hill. And it won't stop changing direction if that engagement is not released. You're really not saying anything of significance here.

I think most instructors beleive there are only two ways to make turns, steering which leads to skidding and tipping which leads to carving. Those that have that thinkning are limited in their appoaches and understanding.

A carving ski is a ski that has been tilted to engage the sidecut, then is allowed to track unabated along a course dictated by that sidecut. There are many ways to alter the turn radius created by that sidecut, but the ski is only carving if the entire length of the edge continues to track over a common point.

As soon as a divergence occurs, as soon as the tip and tail begin to track along a different paths, carving has been aborted. When a divergence of that nature happens a disconnect between the direction the ski's pointing and the direction it's traveling occurs. If the ski is indeed pressured this divergence immediately introduces a degree of sliding.

For such a divergence to occur a supplimental force sufficient to overcome the skis natural tendancy to follow its sidecut, or if unpressured to alter its directional orientation, must be introduced. Only three types of forces can make that occur; a rotational force that acts to twist the ski out of it's natural carve, as occurs during steering, a rotational force that acts to redirect the skis during the light phase of the transition, or a lateral force that impacts one section of the ski more that the another. Unless you're suggesting that you can overcome the laws of physics the supplimental force you employing must fall into one of these three catagories.

Accordingly, if you're correct in your contention that you're not using rotary input, the only option you have at your disposal is to employ an imbalanced lateral supplimental force. I know this can be done, and I know how. I use it myself at times. But I also know that this technique, like all others, carries its own unique shortcomings.

By admonishing rotary as a means of supplimenting carving you are the one who's limiting appoaches. Anyone who faithfully follows this anti-rotary philosophy will never suceed in racing, at any level. Show me a video of Diana negotiating a tight, steep section of a race course and I'll show you her extensive use of rotary. You know this. Shame on you.

Postby *SCSA » Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:38 am

Hey Guest,

Nobody from here shows up at your house and rags on you. Don't do it here.

If you don't like the menu here, go eat somewhere else. I think it's you, who has nothing to say. We finally got our own little thang here, leave us alone.

I paid good money to ski with HH. I don't need you, or any of your other homies, detracting from my learning experience. Shoo, fly.

Look. I skied with HH -- I got better. Not just a little better, way better. Ask Hobbit. he/she/it skis with me. How much more flucking evidence do you need, that PMTS is great stuff? How many customers do you need to hear from? Did you read my post about skiing with the superstar? he/she/it said something to the affect of, leg steering sucks.

Call us what you want, I don't care. All I know is I'm happy -- really happy with where I spend my money for ski instruction (and equipment). You don't get to show up here and tell me I'm not happy. If you think you got it goin on, show up and let's see it. Otherwise, shut the fluck up.

This is PMTS central here. You don't dig it? Don't post here.

Rotary in Racing?

Postby Joseph » Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:43 am

Rotary, That's it. That's what Diana needs to work on if she wants to win races. Wait a minute--she does win races. Yesterday in fact, by over 3 seconds on the first run alone--Against last years women's masters racing national champion, who's younger. Maybe you need to twist your legs to get around the gates, Guest (real brave by the way), but fast racers do not. And if you think that you or anybody else who's twisting will ever beat good racers who don't, you're on crack!

Lala Land

Postby Harald » Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:13 am

Where did this guy come from a time capsule, this post demonstrates why PMTS exists? I got sick of this level of incompetence in ski instruction. This guy is a typical PSIA instructor, with no understanding and clear limitations in his skiing. This guest is such a sniveling coward he can?t even present an identity. He has complete misunderstanding of skiing and that?s clear by the post. Just look at the dribble demonstrated in the comments.

Go ahead use leg steering, leg rotary we don?t care. You will ski like you write, poorly. We saw first hand from the video of one of your lead Demo Team members what rotary does to skiers. You like it, you use it.

As SCSA says, if you had the B-lls to come on the mountain we would have some respect, but you are a sniveling coward hiding behind the ?Guest? heading.

Not one of our PMTS campers would fall for these misdirected comments. Our PMTS skiers who are sometimes skiing only ten to fifteen days a season not only understand skiing better than this ?Guest?, but they would never listen to such poor advice. They would teach a better lesson than this guy and I know most of them ski better than he does.

Hey dude, your useless attempt to display skiing is wasted here; these people see though your garbage, despite that fact, we are impressed by your ignorance.

PMTS?ers know what skiing really looks like, it doesn?t look like this Guest?s skiing image, or description.

Do you think Diana learned from this guy or with these ideas? She saw the same ideas and approaches for years as a PSIA member.

They tried to push these PSIA convoluted ideas like steering, leg rotary and moving the Cm to the falline down her throat.

Diana is smarter than these guys, but because they were the authority (examiners and trainers) she had to listen to keep her status. All it did was ruin her skiing. Why was she frustrated with her skiing and progress? When Diana was a PSIA member they tried to fill her with their garbage and all it did was ruin her skiing. The way PSIA dictates to the poor trainees they freeze them at a lower level, so they can look like heroes. . The smart instructors see through it. But most get brainwashed like this guy is.

Now Diana can out ski and teach everyone on the PSIA Demo Team, on any day. Did she learn how to ski the way she does now from PSIA methods, did she learn her skiing from the Demo Team or PSIA trainers? No, she learned by stopping steering and rotary, just as the rest of the world cup does.

We know what PSIA teaching does to skiing. It freezes your progress and you become a golf cart skier, it makes you ski the way they do, yuck!!!

I changed Diana?s skiing in three years and now she skis better than any PSIA instructor at any level.

This guy is just trying to get your goat; he?s another lurker who?s losing the battle. He?s another PSIA instructor seeing his antiquated method slip away.

This ?Guest? is trying to justify his own poor skiing performance. This guest has no realization of what real skiing is. He is living in that imaginary, artificial PSIA world where they have convinced themselves they can ski. He can?t even see how poorly they ski, that tells you all you need to know.

Do you think they would like to ski like Diana, of course they would, but they will never achieve that level. Diana beat a former PSIA Demo Team member by 3 seconds, in a race yesterday. She is getting better every year. They are not.

And don?t try to come back with ?Oh Harald, you are so nasty to PSIA and ski instructors, Ott.? I don?t say anything about instructors until some idiot like this comes to this forum and makes a total ass of himself.
"Maximum Skiing information, Minimum BS
Posts: 1181
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: Dumont

Post with those that you can fool!

Postby Eddy » Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:04 pm

Dido on everything Harald said. I can?t believe Harald has held back for so long. I?m glad he spoke up. The Guest poster is another typical PSIA attempt to keep their failing system in the hunt. Sorry Guest, you can?t make you BS stick with knowledgeable skiers.

Postby Guest » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:11 pm

Sorry to rain on your dillusional parade SCSA, but after all, you invited me.

Joseph, all racers use rotary. The best racers in the world use rotary. Bodie just this season described for the skiing world his innovation of one sided rotary; a tactic in which he skis a clean arc to arc entry on his right turns, and executes a pivoted entry on his left. This allows him to cut in half (in steep, tight sections where arc to arc is impossible) the amount of speed dumping pivot entries that his challengers are executing. If Diana is winning she doesn't need to brush up on her rotary entries, she's doing them very well. You're being sold a bill of goods with this anti-rotary thing Joseph.

Harald, what can I say. What a pathetic post. I present you with a reasonable challenge with a technical theme, and you respond with almost 30 pages of personal insults with zero technical content. Probably the best course of action, as your postion is so erroneous as to be totally indefendable, but I at least thought you'd make a feeble attempt.

I hope all the readers took notice of his low grade responce. Nothing there to rebuke what I said to him, just name calling. Shake it off folks, you're following a false prophet here.

Postby Harald Harb » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:41 pm

Nice point, Ho, Ho.

Don?t try to come over here and present your pathetic skiing ideas and you won?t get the responses you deserve. You are a fraud, and doing no one any good. Keep your level of skiing where it belongs in PSIA. You are illogical and you make no sense. Others have presented logical approaches and they get due respect. When you find some maybe the responses will be different.
Harald Harb

lost soul

Postby Harald Harb » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:59 pm

Guest, you not only insult everyone with skiing knowledge and intelligence with your posts, you also assume readers of this forum are sheep and easily swayed.

No one here has a skiing prophet and no one on this forum is a follower, for you to insinuate this shows your contempt for people with real ideas.

People here make their decisions based on results they achieve when using PMTS, Your warn out methods have been seen, tried and rebuked, but you can?t accept the fact that there are skiers who have discovered the truth. Spend you energy where you have a following and where you have fooled the readers, not here where we all see through your misdirected attempts to mislead.
Harald Harb

Postby *SCSA » Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:25 pm

That's right -- I invited you to "our house".

But when you come to "our house", you have manners. You don't, bitch about the cooking. What? Do you go to someone's house and bitch about the cooking? Some Guest you are.

False prophet? Oh, my, Gawd! Hey man, that's fine. You're the one who's missing out.

We're the lucky ones. :D

Friggin Broncos.

Postby *SCSA » Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:59 pm

False prophet?

Okay, let's see. :wink:

1) I skied with a world champion two days ago who said, "Harald? I love him! Oh yeah, I know Harald. He's so beautiful to watch. Give him a big hug for me."

2) I rode up the chair with an instructor today at the Big Show, who's been teaching there for 22 years. "You know Harald? Oh yeah man, Harald is cool. He's all about the movements. What he's doing is great."

A World champion skier and an instructor at the Big Show who's been there for 22 years.

I think those are two pretty good references. :wink:
There's plenty more where they came from. :)

Now Guest. Where do you work? If you work at the same place as the instructor I rode up with and you both have two opinions that couldn't be further apart, which is true, what does that say about the state of ski instruction? Does it say the ski instruction is full of opinions, not answers? I think it does.

Now you tell me how the customer wins, if they go into a place of business where you and my instructor friend work, selling the exact same product, ski lessons. In one corner, you have Guest. Who says Harald is whooey. But in the other corner, you have my friend, who says Harald is right on. Oh and by the way, Guest. The world champion skier I skied with. He/she/it teaches at the Big Show too.

Tell me how the customer wins, when the business is run by personal opinion, not customer satisfaction.

See ya.
Been here, done that. :lol:

Postby Rusty Guy » Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:57 pm

Why the assumption that the posts are from either an instructor or from a PSIA member?

I have been hanging around here and epicski long enough to have a fairly good eye for individual writing styles. I'm fairly, and only fairly, certain who it is.

Don't make unfair assumptions! Wait, I don't think anyone here gives two flips about being fair. After all it's all about Harald and about the ills of the 6000 members of PSIA-RM. I will simply tell you if my hunch is correct the poster is NOT a PSIA member and NOT an instructor.

I will also add the individual mention rotary movements and said absolutely nothing about "leg steering".
Rusty Guy

Postby Rusty Guy » Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:59 pm

SCSA I can't believe you would ever chastise anybody for their manners :roll:

In addition you didn't really have delusions about the donkeys did you? :shock:
Rusty Guy

Postby Rusty Guy » Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:02 pm

I just reread all of this. Folks get mighty defensive mighty fast! :lol:
Rusty Guy

Postby *SCSA » Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:07 pm

So I go in at the half, and it's 35 to friggin 3. :cry:


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