New Harb Carvers

Friends get together

New Harb Carvers

Postby RyanAllen » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:15 pm

Hi Everybody,

I thought this might be helpful for anyone thinking of building a pair of Harb Carvers. Building my own has been on my mind for over a year, and when the skiing shut down early, it was the motivation I needed to launch my project. The process might be a little intimidating for people like me without ANY metalworking experience. The DYI instructions on the HSS website are very good though, and ordering parts through McMaster worked well for me since they have a distribution center just a few hours away. You'll end up with extra nuts and bolts but most of the money is in the wheels and aluminum tubing.

My takeaway from the construction process was...
1) Use power tools whenever possible - do not try hand cutting or drilling - the results won't look pro and you could end up with misaligned holes. A drill press is a must have. My dad recently restored an old one from some backwoods Michigan junker but it worked great. I will be buying a press for myself. I used a non-ferrous saw blade with a mitre saw to cut the tubes. Also worked extremely well. Tried a bit of hack sawing but I was not happy with the results.
2) You will make a terrific mess. The aluminum shards fly all over the place.
3) You may need to order some unique tools like a tap set for the brake construction and countersink bit for the bindings.

Image

I'll start working on serious movement analysis right away. Here's my first time down an actual hill - I had spent a little bit of time skating and step-turning on the flats first. My first few times were a bit frustrating - tipping them at low speeds on the flats didn't do much until I got a little impatient and put on some speed - then they really came alive! I've also watched all of Diana's vidoes. I'll probably try and focus on my countering and free foot management with the goal of developing much greater tipping angles.

Also, this hill, and most of the local road surfaces, are chip sealed and much rougher than asphalt. Not sure how that affects carving but my sense is that they would turn easier on smoother surfaces like asphalt or concrete. Any thoughts on that?

Last edited by RyanAllen on Sat May 09, 2020 5:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
RyanAllen
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:15 am
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Re: New Harb Carvers

Postby noobSkier » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:20 pm

Nice! I have built two pairs so far and will build another pair soon based on the comp model (100mm rear wheels). What helped me the most was having the proper grinding wheels for aluminum and pre-drilling all the holes...of course the drill press is also a must.

You are right its easier and safer to be on a smooth, clean surface. Wheels wear fast so rotate them regularly (I do it every 3-4 sessions). Its also worth spending some time to tweak your alignment for these. I have found carvers to be much more prone to scissoring so I have extra canting on top of my regular setup to compensate. You might have some of that going on, but it looks like a good start.

Also when you wear out your brake pads, buy the harder ones they last longer.
User avatar
noobSkier
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:35 am
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: New Harb Carvers

Postby RyanAllen » Fri May 01, 2020 10:05 am

Thanks for the reply and suggestions! It doesn't surprise me that you've already built a second pair, with plans for a third pair in progress. I too am curious about making a few tweaks to the design. For example, what about creating a slight rocker in the wheel base? The last two wheels of my inline skates have flippable holes so you can adjust the axle holes to rocker the wheels. I wouldn't mind making the carvers a little more "carvy" to avoid the temptation to twist them while turning. Also wondering about smaller wheels up front as pictured in some of the original carver designs? It also looked like the front wheels weren't quite a far forward. But I also saw a video of SkierSynergy on a long wheel base GS model. Not for me! I ordered a new Sony Handycam to get some better MA videos soon. My goal is to really learn to start the tipping movement with my feet - would it help to carve with my boots unbuckled?
User avatar
RyanAllen
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:15 am
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Re: New Harb Carvers

Postby noobSkier » Fri May 01, 2020 11:33 am

The smaller front wheels are the comp model, this is supposed to make them more turny. In any case, it's the more advanced model so definitely start with the standard. You can't really twist on carvers without skidding the back wheels which you can really feel so use that as feedback. I think creating a rocker would somewhat defeat the purpose as this might facilitate twisting. Using tipping only is HARD and it should be, this is what makes carvers such a great learning tool. Carvers punish non-pmts movements in a way that even skis cannot. Buckle the boot like normal.

IMO the movement progression on carvers is as follows:

1. Learn to tip the feet
2. Challenge your tipping & CA by tightening the turns
3. Incorporate flexing-to-release

#3 is where I am and the hardest IMO because you don't have the same level of pressure feedback as on skis.
User avatar
noobSkier
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:35 am
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: New Harb Carvers

Postby ErikCO » Fri May 01, 2020 1:28 pm

RyanAllen wrote:would it help to carve with my boots unbuckled?


I've never tried something like the Carvers, but as someone who has done a lot of both ice and inline skating (with a bit of roller skating as a kid) as well as a good bit of skiing, not properly tightening the boot is asking for an ankle injury.
User avatar
ErikCO
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:26 pm
Location: Colorado Springs

Re: New Harb Carvers

Postby RyanAllen » Sat May 02, 2020 4:54 am

Thanks guys!! I really appreciate the super high quality feedback - where else can you get that? No where but PMTS.

ErikCO wrote:I've never tried something like the Carvers, but as someone who has done a lot of both ice and inline skating (with a bit of roller skating as a kid) as well as a good bit of skiing, not properly tightening the boot is asking for an ankle injury.


Copy that!

noobSkier wrote:I think creating a rocker would somewhat defeat the purpose as this might facilitate twisting.


Understood. And, to that point, I had a real "lightbulb / breakthrough" moment while carving yesterday. I had been practicing tipping more progressively through the turns, something you can plainly see in SkiMoose's carver video's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjsFDMd ... dex=8&t=0s. It took some practice to get the feel for rolling the carvers further and further on the LTE but once I got a few more turns under my belt I could really crank the turns hard. It was like EUREKA! Now I understand why it's supposed to be difficult at first, so it will be fun when you can tip more aggressively.

I have another thought about movement progression - what do you guys think about trying to hold your counteracting until engaging the new set of edges? Related to carving the High C part of the turn. I've been practicing my movements often using a sequential approach to try and lock in each important Primary Movement.

Thanks again,
Ry
User avatar
RyanAllen
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:15 am
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Re: New Harb Carvers

Postby noobSkier » Sat May 02, 2020 10:27 am

moose is insanely good on carvers, definitely someone to watch. He was better on his first video than I was after a year :lol:
User avatar
noobSkier
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:35 am
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: New Harb Carvers

Postby razie » Sat May 02, 2020 2:52 pm

ErikCO wrote:not properly tightening the boot is asking for an ankle injury.


This is interesting - when I started doing my boots the way HH suggests, somewhat loose at the top, I got some "well, your ankles will not be happy..." - so what is "properly" ?

noobSkier wrote:moose is insanely good on carvers, definitely someone to watch. He was better on his first video than I was after a year :lol:


you stopped pushing off, to some extent...
:lol:

But - this is also interesting:
<<uhh - how do I paste screenshot?>>
if you watch carefully - he's doing the pizza slice entry, on carvers... is that because he's pushing off?
User avatar
razie
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:40 am
Location: Q mon capitain

Re: New Harb Carvers

Postby noobSkier » Sat May 02, 2020 8:01 pm

razie wrote:if you watch carefully - he's doing the pizza slice entry, on carvers... is that because he's pushing off?


I noticed that too but I think its too early to tell. Its so hard to get the legs synced up on carvers especially if the alignment isn't just right
User avatar
noobSkier
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:35 am
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: New Harb Carvers

Postby ErikCO » Sun May 03, 2020 10:32 am

razie wrote:This is interesting - when I started doing my boots the way HH suggests, somewhat loose at the top, I got some "well, your ankles will not be happy..." - so what is "properly" ?


I imagine you are overthinking this a little. :) The question was if he should be using the carvers without buckling the tops of his boots. In answer to your inquire, I would say (although I have not had a discussion with HH on the subject) the top two buckles of your boots should be tight enough that you are not able to do much lifting of your heel out of the heel cup. At least from my experience, I injured my ankle about 3 years back due to the upper buckles on my boots not being tight enough. I was skiing in crud on skis that were too short, tips of my skis suddenly dove down and I was thrown forward. Because there was too much movement of my foot, the amount of force applied to the bindings wasn't enough to get them to release but it was enough to get me to try to dislocate my ankle. That was the end of my ski season (and it was 3 months before I could hike or run). If I am note mistaken, a too loose boot is also the reason that HH managed to tear his Achilles tendon while over in Europe. If you are having to undo the buckles at the end of every run to let your feet regain circulation, that is certainly too tight. If your heels are constantly slipping out of the heel cup when you do free foot pull back, that's too lose.
User avatar
ErikCO
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:26 pm
Location: Colorado Springs


Return to Social Chatting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron