Two schools/two examples

[tdk6]

I would offer this, having fun and learning to ski with proper movements are not exclusive. I know from my own experience as a coach and teacher and from watching our instructors and instructors at PMTS ski schools teaching kids, that the kids can and are learning to ski correctly and they are enjoying the skiing at the same time. So if you are aware that this is the case in the countries you mention, others must also be aware; how are the ski schools addressing the problem or are they addressing it?

Others are aware. Its common knowledge. Google it and find out more. Here a quick serach: "We are a very child-unfriendly society. Children don't fit into people's plans." He pointed out that there is little support from the government for parents. I said that American parents got little support from the government, either. R said that the few German nursery schools were oversubscribed, "and it would never cross anyone's mind to start a new one." As you can see from this quote its a matter of attitude. In Scandinavia kids are allowed to play and have fun while kids in central europe are raiced to become adults at a very early age (in france they start [pre]school at 3).

I dont think that ski schools are addressing these problems since thats not really a problem according to their standards. Im the problem! Everyone that has ever worked as an instructor knows that parrents are usually falcely conserned about issues with their kids in the ski school. When Im the parrent I get treated the same way. Next please..... Thats why I try to be different and guess what, it works! I think that PMTS does a very good job at being different as well.

There is absolutely no conflict in proper and successfull instruction and having fun. My objection is to instructors that over emphasize the fun factor and cover up bad technique. Even worse, teaches wrong movements. One of my all time favorite rants goes to the car driving drill where kid is holding on to an imaginary stearing weel and turning it in the direction of turing. There is no worse drill for teaching the worst possible movements in skiing: rotation and banking.

[Icanski]

a favortie here is the airplane turn: put your arms out and lean to the outside, but kids know that planes lean to the inside, so they either think the instructor doesn't know anything about planes, or they start leaning to the inside.
I agree with you about the steering wheel game, they lean and turn their hands to the inside; they are doing what they know happens in the real world, which is what the instructor asked/told them to do, but the instructor is doing the opposite.
I think the kids would rather be able to actually do the moves and learn to ski instead of pretending to be a truck,plane,etc...
Icanski

[Ken]

a favortie here is the airplane turn: put your arms out and lean to the outside, but kids know that planes lean to the inside, so they either think the instructor doesn't know anything about planes, or they start leaning to the inside.
I agree with you about the steering wheel game, they lean and turn their hands to the inside; they are doing what they know happens in the real world, which is what the instructor asked/told them to do, but the instructor is doing the opposite.

I preface this drill by saying that we are going to do something exactly opposite from what their experience is...and people buy into it well. I demonstrate the movements standing still and ask them to look at the angles my skis make on the snow when I make the correct opposite movement vs. the accustomed movement of tilting into the turn. This is especially useful on a slope where my skis start sliding downhill sideways when I tilt toward the hill as part of my demo. Some of the instructors make the airplane turns where they tilt inside...I tell they they're going the wrong way, and they say, "...oh, yeah," and start tilting the right way.

A very important point was raised on the previous page...the skier's natural athleticism. Some skiers will excel despite their poor training or lack of training (and of course they'll do even better with good training). Others of us need return visits to PMTS camps to get good--and by "good" I mean better than we ever imagined ourselves skiing. I had a couple of breakthroughs recently. I'm carving deeply enough to get my fingertips down to the snow (no, not inclining; PMTS carving). The hip isn't quite down there yet, but some day.... And I was able to carve one run from top to bottom that has a steep section I'd had to brush-out before for speed control. I carved the steep tightly enough for speed control this time!

It would be fun coaching the girl. While her technique needs improvement, the boy's technique needs to be changed, a much bigger task. His real problem, of course, is that he'll never be able to ski much better than he is now, nor ski off the smooth groomers, until he changes his technique. If this is about the best he'll ever ski, he'll lose interest and stop being a customer of the ski school and the ski mountain. His movements are likely ingrained, but correct coaching and patience will put a huge smile on his face and he'll be all over the mountain.

having fun and learning to ski with proper movements are not exclusive.

The criteria for teaching kids where I teach is Safety, Fun, and Skills, in that order. The kids I taught in the multiweek programs skied safely, had a lot of fun, and got PMTS skills, learned a lot, and improved a lot.

[tdk6]

It is incredible how some adult people can ski all over the mountain with the most horrific technique. Dan comes to mind, a very strong and skilled athlete from the US that picked up skiing at adult age and never took a lesson. He looked like an easten-witch taking off on his broom with a double legged stance and stance width that would have made Matts stance look narrow, braking at the waist like a switch blade knife, butt pointing straight back, heavily rotating his upper body into the turn, hips rotating heavily towards the outside, banking and arms propelling like a couple of windmills. Still, he managed to ski in the most difficult terrain including steep and icy bumps, braking crust and crudd. He outskied most of the intermediate skiers in our party and without any injury.

The boy in the video clip will never morph into annother Dan since I see potential in his skiing but as it is now he might be skiing all over the mountain and his money spending parrents would not know anything was going slightly wrong. He has clearly been getting the wrong kind of instruction since his movements are bad and bad movements lead to bad skiing. Still IMHO his twin tip skis are holding him back big time. Such a for aft centered stance on skis with no lift under bindings simply cannot lead to efficient carving on groomes like in the demo. Compare to the girl. I see the skis give something back. I see interaction between the movements and the skis. I dont see that in the boys skiing. I had a few similair cases this year at our local hill. I advice all parrents to stay clear of twin tip skis.

[4Slide]

Well, a lot of kids like the park. A lot more probably just want to have "cool" gear, but so it goes. They're not going to develop well as racers on park skis or other "twin tips" (and the typically softer boots etc.) but they can still ski well. Sort of a corollary in my view to the fact that there is gear best-suited to the PMTS progression (and for your typical freeskier having the most fun in 98% of the real-world resort conditions they'll encounter) as discussed numerous times here...but PMTS still works well with other choices, including park skis imo. It's all good.

[h.harb]

It’s the attitude I’m offended by, that old excuse about if someone can’t do something in sports it’s because they don’t have athletic ability, that’s crap. Skiing is mostly a recreational sport done for enjoyment, not competition. Writing someone off before they have a chance, is a pervasive attitude among snooty athletes. I’ve seen it in skiing, surfing, rock climbing and tennis. People learn in different ways and some don’t learn by simply doing, especially if they are being taught incorrect movements, which confuse the body.

[Icanski]

Ken,
I've been away but just read your advice on the airplane exercise. Thanks. I do explain it that way when I do use that exercise, but I don't even mention airplane, I just say, "what happpens when we tilt this way..." and off we go. It's a favorite CSIA exercise. I just try not to mention "airplane" because it has very definite connotations for the kids and many just hear that and shut off the mind and go "airplane, ok, I know what to do..." What happens is they lean in like a plane, and then we have to demo again, etc. etc. When I only have an hour at best with them, that eats up time.
It's like the canoe exercise of paddling one side, then the other, or saying french fries, or pizza. Most kids don't need that kind of imagery to be able to do that. You can say this is a wedge, and then that's what they call it.
I'd rather say," this is called parallel" and not even use the "W-word"...
Icanski