Pulling the feet back

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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby HeluvaSkier » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:37 pm

tdk6 wrote:Pulling the feet back is hardly the same thing as having our feet under our hips during the whole transition. Tell me helluva, how do you want it, feet under hips during the whole transition or feet up front to pull back at the end of transition. Sorry for overanalyzing.....


Are you intentionally trying to aggravate me? I didn't say anything about the end of the transition (did you read what I wrote?). I said you have to pull your feet back IN TRANSITION because they can easily get out in front of you if you do not actively pull your feet back at this critical point in the turn. This isn't rocket science. Perhaps if you spent less time over analyzing really simple concepts like pulling the feet back you'd be able to actually perform those movements in your own skiing. Hell, you could pull your feet back ANYWHERE and it would be an improvement...
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby BigE » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:43 pm

Heluva,

Let's rephrase slightly..... pulling the feet back in transition is required because they will get ahead of you. If they stay ahead, you cannot start the next turn.
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby tdk6 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:59 pm

BigE wrote:Heluva,

Let's rephrase slightly..... pulling the feet back in transition is required because they will get ahead of you. If they stay ahead, you cannot start the next turn.

Thank you BigE.
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby tdk6 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:04 pm

Helluva, you cannot seriously mean that the skier in the video has his hips over his feet during the complete transition!
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby HeluvaSkier » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:23 pm

tdk6 wrote:Helluva, you cannot seriously mean that the skier in the video has his hips over his feet during the complete transition!


Did I say that. No... I don't think I did. This isn't Epic. I don't argue semantics. Anywhere.
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby A.L.E » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:18 pm

TDK,

I also have struggled with what the right concept is with the pull back at transition and whether it is supposed to result in the hips being over the feet. So your question is not lost on me. :)

I think retraction turns can often look back seated at transition, that's why pulling the feet back is so essential. What I am seeing is, provided the feet are pulled back and the ankles strongly flexed then the hips can still be behind your feet. Proper balance has been established and that is what is important. The flexing of the ankles will bring the hips foward as well.

My copy of the latest Essential DVD is still in transit down under but I think it's on For/Aft balance, no doubt there will be something in it on this subject.

PSIA pop extension releases don't have the same problem, they just stand up, get weightless and then have to deal with late turn entry and pivot. Evidenced by the Demo Team tryout video on Epic.
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby h.harb » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:37 pm

YOU HAVE TO GET 'THE FLOAT", KNOW HOW TO ACHEIVE IT; BEFORE YOU UNDERSTAND PULL BACK AT THIS LEVEL. YOU CAN'T DO IT IF YOU ARE EXTENDING ON EITHER LEG.
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby BigE » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:41 pm

How's that for clarity? Thank you Harald. It's safe to say that the float is the magic -- the ability to control the path of the skis and the path of the body is paramount.
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby Icanski » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:59 pm

Hi Harald,
I got the third DVD, and it is superb like the others. Excellent! I can't wait to get out on Monday and try it all out.
I find the new exercise quite intriguing, where you pull the DH foot back and the UH foot forward to find the point where the hips are ahead of the heels and you see what sort of pressure it puts on the tips. You lift the UH ski. I know in this exercise the emphasis is on finding the place and feel for the forward position, my question comes for when it's all back together in the full turns.
When one achieves that position of the hips ahead of the feet, and the ability to pressure the tips, is there still a point in the turn where there is some heel pressure? I remember one of the earlier books mentioning this, so that near the end of the turn there is some pressure to support the tail. Is this still happening? With pressure on the tips, what is the balance that keeps the tails from washing out or losing some grip? I know that the exercise is working on a particular movement, but when it's all put together how do we make sure that the entire edge has grip?
I think I understand this concept, but it's the kind of thing someone will ask me, and I'd like to make sure I thoroughly understand it myself so I can give them an answer that makes sense.

I was also happy to see the phantom move section in there, too. I think it is very clear, and some of the most common mistakes you point out are what I've seen in a few people who've had their first PMTS lesson with me, but haven't read the Essentials and are going by what they've figured out from book 1 & 2 and trying things themselves. I will use that exercise to help establish that for them.

What is the area where some of the scenes are shot that has so much bare rock around it; wide slopes and a small peak pointing up?
Great job, with all three! I'll be poring over these for many months to come. Superb!
thanks,
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby BigE » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 pm

OK Icanski,

Now you've done it. I have to buy the damn things now......
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby h.harb » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:39 pm

Greg understands why I can never post on Epic.
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby h.harb » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:44 pm

We just finished the Bear Valley camp, it went great, Jay and I are in the same hotel room with our computers logged on. Hey, TDK nice try on bringing this thread down to Epic levels. Just read it, do what it says, and it will make you a better skier.
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby BigE » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:45 pm

Good Lord Harald, why would you want to?
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby SkierSynergy » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:01 pm

It's not about a position in which you must stay. It's about understanding a cause and effect relationship.

IF you want to get in the driver's seat, then pulling a foot/feet back would be a good thing to do.

When would it be useful to be in the driver's seat? simple answer.
If I have my skis on, I like to be in the driver's seat.

So, when should I have tension to keep/pull the feet back? The answer is obvious.
There is no inconsistency with "keep my feet back" and "pull my feet back."
It's just a matter of degree in the same movement/effort .

If you want to move the feet back, a general rule for when it is easier to move the feet back is when they are lightened.

Flexing the inside leg during tipping lightens it. It is easier to pull it back.
The point at which one flexes and rolls through the transition at the top of the turn, is an obvious point that is easier to pull both skis back.
Choose your medicine.

Another simple rule is that I would rather stay out of the back seat than try to get back in the front seat once I lose it.
But everyone loses it. The main thing is not trying to ski in a position but a be able to understand and control the movements.
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Re: Pulling the feet back

Postby h.harb » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:21 pm

after rooming with him, yes he does smoke and he looks just like his avatar.
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