Pressure, pressure. pressure

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Re: Pressure, pressure. pressure

Postby Mac » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:32 pm

That's the way I see it, Max. Whether it's a one footed, two footed or a weighted release, the skis will go through the neutral phase as they transition from the uphill edges to the downhill edges. I think most people's idea of the float is where both skis are evenly weighted and flat on the snow. But even with the Phantom Move, where the old stance ski is lifted and tilted to it's little toe edge, there is a brief transition where the skier's weight goes from being supported mostly on the big toe edge of the downhill ski to a more even distribution of balance between the BTE and the uphill little toe edge, and then balanced exclusively on the little toe edge of the uphill ski for a brief instant. This happens much more quickly than in a long drawn out GS or Super G turn where balance transfer can be accomplished more progressively, but it still happens none the less, IMO.
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Re: Pressure, pressure. pressure

Postby Max_501 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:08 pm

Mac wrote:This happens much more quickly than in a long drawn out GS or Super G turn where balance transfer can be accomplished more progressively, but it still happens none the less, IMO.


Keep in mind that GS speeds are roughly 2X that of SL speeds. So while the skier may cover more distance during the transfer that may not equate to more time to do the transfer.
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Re: Pressure, pressure. pressure

Postby h.harb » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:17 pm

Also the forces are much higher in GS.
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Re: Pressure, pressure. pressure

Postby Mac » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:58 am

True, but when I mentioned GS and SG turns, I wasn't thinking in terms of racing speeds, I was thinking more along the lines of more long, relaxed lazy recreational turns. I was thinking more in terms of turn size and shape, but not so much of high speeds.
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Re: Pressure, pressure. pressure

Postby HeluvaSkier » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:49 am

Mac wrote:True, but when I mentioned GS and SG turns, I wasn't thinking in terms of racing speeds, I was thinking more along the lines of more long, relaxed lazy recreational turns. I was thinking more in terms of turn size and shape, but not so much of high speeds.


Just because it is the size of a GS or SG turn, does not make it a GS or SG turn. :wink:
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Re: Pressure, pressure. pressure

Postby Max_501 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:51 pm

HeluvaSkier wrote:Just because it is the size of a GS or SG turn, does not make it a GS or SG turn. :wink:


Exactly what I was thinking. If its a GS turns is fast and powerful.
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Re: Pressure, pressure. pressure

Postby vseh » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:55 pm

h.harb wrote:Every turn I make, has some stored energy in the ski. And if I do very slow two footed releases, and there is no energy possible, developed from that turn what happens? I pretend there is, and take my "center" and upper body across my skis, by pulling it across with my abdominal and core muscles and with tipping and leg flexing.
I demonstrate that in my Essentials Flexing DVD on a flat surface with only my ski boots on.

That's a really helpful comment for me. As someone who spends some time on gentle slopes or moving from one slope to another, gravity and speed ("The Force") are not always available. I had thought I was doing something wrong in making an active movement in taking my centre across my skis
The exercise you refer to is I guess at about 7.00 minutes on the outside of a hut. It's a great exercise to bring into skiing as it also really helps tipping to develop. It's one of my favourites among many. It gave another of those eureka moments - "so that's what I should be doing".
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Extension happens

Postby John Mason » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:09 pm

This HH video shows how the extension happens

(forgive me if it's already been referenced in this thread)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8ZBh_7y ... re=related

As you fall into the inside of your turn because of the flexing and tipping of the inside leg, just maintaining contact with the outside ski will lengthen that leg. You'll feel the pressure build and you resist the pressure. This is a different approach then moving your CM by pushing. It's the opposite in fact.

It's falling into the turn then continuing to balance on that outside edge.
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Re: Pressure, pressure. pressure

Postby h.harb » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:02 am

Hi John, Welcome back to the forum. Let us know if you are coming our way this winter.
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I'll be around

Postby John Mason » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:55 am

I have to be - I just bought an epicpass. I need to get my money's worth!
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Re: Pressure, pressure. pressure

Postby l2ski » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:52 am

Another good thread on flexing and extending. Bounce.
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Re: Pressure, pressure. pressure

Postby h.harb » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:56 am

The slower the release due to speed or slope steepness, the more balance you have to use and create. I'l bet you a bargain lunch, not one PSIA Demo Team member can do a correct two footed release. Why, they don't know how to use balance or develop it without speed. This is the true test for a skier who really understands how everything is put together.
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Re: Pressure, pressure. pressure

Postby DougD » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:32 am

h.harb wrote:The slower the release due to speed or slope steepness, the more balance you have to use and create. I'l bet you a bargain lunch, not one PSIA Demo Team member can do a correct two footed release. Why, they don't know how to use balance or develop it without speed. This is the true test for a skier who really understands how everything is put together.

Not taking that bet. It took me 20+ ski days of focused drills to nail super-slow TFR's... including a frustrating but fruitful week at camp. PSIA doesn't know anything about the balance and movements required. They could try forever and not get it.

BTW, when the balance and movements FINALLY came together and I found myself linking s-l-o-w TFR's, each from a near standstill as in your video and camp demonstrations, it was a tremendous thrill. One of the hardest things I've ever done on skis. Anyone who thinks a slow TFR is easy has never done one.

Paradoxically it feels almost effortless in the sense that I'm no longer fighting my skis or gravity. They do the work, I just balance and move to let the skis edge and arc as designed. I guess that's why it LOOKS easy.

To keep it on topic for this thread, in these turns there is NO effort to increase ski pressure at any point. No active extension at any point. In a slow, brushed turn on easy terrain, the stance leg will extend to maintain snow contact without pushing. If you push, you'll lose the turn. The effort is in tipping, free leg flexing and CA/CB... none of which involve directly fighting gravity or turn forces like ski pushing does.
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Re: Pressure, pressure. pressure

Postby skijim13 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:24 am

Doug, I will be at the Spring Rally this week hope there is someone on the demo team to see if they can do the TFR. I showed it to friend who thought he was a good skier and could not come close. I have spent many many hours working on the TFR.
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Re: Pressure, pressure. pressure

Postby DougD » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:08 am

skijim13 wrote:I showed it to friend who thought he was a good skier and could not come close.

We were all good skiers, Jim... until our first day at camp! :oops: :lol:

skijim13 wrote:I have spent many many hours working on the TFR.

Ditto... many days here, interspersed with Super Phantom drills. It was only after I nailed the SP (more or less) that the TFR finally came together... proving once again that HH's learning progression is correct.

The hardest part for me was LTE balance at very slow speed (with CA... and CB... and proper hands). Harald's recent reminder about dorsiflexion was hugely helpful. Once I finally put that all together while working on SP's, the TFR's happened the next time I tried them. That was just two ski days ago. I can actually link short-radius TFR's starting from and finishing at a dead stop... like they try to get us to do at camp. Only took me a bit over a year!

I need to get video though. "Confirming" correct movements from one's own perspective is, well, you know.

BTW, if you do get a Demo Team member to try TFR's, try to gdt video. Like most of us, they're liable to believe they're doing something that they're not.
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