Off Piste Skiing

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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby h.harb » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:37 pm

Old man skiing on 95mm skis on a 40-degree ungroomed slope, " Dreamcatcher" but still skiing PMTS turns.

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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby h.harb » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:45 pm

Hey, the man with such track record deserves more respect than title 'He is just another extreme skier'.


OK, let me give you some context because there is a serious misunderstanding about "extreme skiers".

Sorry I disagree, the guy "to me" is just another extreme skier, it's all in your background and context of how you rate skiers. If you once skied world cup downhill runs at over 75mph, this type of skiing, fast on open steeps with untracked snow is a walk in the park. When I was racing downhill there were 50 other guys I knew who were in the same race that could easily do what this guy is doing. "Extreme Skiers" are overrated by world cup standards, especially downhill standards. That's my take and I'm sticking to it.

I look at this type of skiing as just another guy who gets in the movies. Mathias Mayer and 50 other world cup racers, today, would destroy this guy on any off-piste slope. It's all in where you came from.

Update: BTW, today 5 days after I posted this Mathais Meyer just won the Super Bowl of skiing the Hahnenkamm Downhill in Kitzbuhel, Tirol. He was second yesterday in the Super-G.
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby lsem » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:42 pm

Like your skiing on RNR's, have seen this on youtube. I remember some your's good line in rocks from Performance Freeskiing DVD, where you triggered small sluff avalanche.

Totally agree with you, WC racers are better than any skiers and have abilities to beat even on other fields. They (you!) are elite. Just few notes. 1) this is not open steeps but some serious exposed area on glaciers that you will not find on every video of so called extreme skiers; 2) this man skis differently than other heavily rotated, extended, often clumsy so called free riders which indeed usually ski wide open areas on 120mm rockered skis. That is why I like it, when free skiers respect technique and can demonstrate skills.
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby B.Mulligan » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:17 pm

Honestly, though I respect DP’s long freeskiing career and his muscular approach to skiing, I’m shocked anyone has suggested him as a PMTS model. He’s more like a second generation, European John Egan with a no holds barred ATV approach to all mountain skiing than a technical skiing crossover like Caston. There are some good technical models within the freakier ranks-I just saw a recent video of the venerable Mike Douglass, a contemporary of Perret, skiing some powdery trees and he still looks and skis great. Seth Morrison, another great of Perret’s era and beyond, is a way better technical and big mountain bad-assery skier.
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:32 pm

Some wise words from Glen Plake in this classic ski movie: between 5:00-7:10

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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby VAskier » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:34 am

go_large_or_go_home wrote:Some wise words from Glen Plake in this classic ski movie: between 5:00-7:10



How about this quote at 11:46:

"You know you see people jumping cliffs and cornices. I wonder if those people are skiing, or do they just happen to have a pair of skis on?"
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:10 am

Daron Rahlves backcountry giant slalom....

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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:16 am

Back on topic...

I am sure that this video has appeared before, but it deserves a bump:

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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby h.harb » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:59 pm

Update: BTW, today 5 days after I posted last time on this topic, Mathais Meyer won the Super Bowl of skiing the Hahnenkamm Downhill in Kitzbuhel, Tirol. He was second yesterday in the Super-G.
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby HeluvaSkier » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:23 pm

h.harb wrote:Update: BTW, today 5 days after I posted last time on this topic, Mathais Meyer won the Super Bowl of skiing the Hahnenkamm Downhill in Kitzbuhel, Tirol. He was second yesterday in the Super-G.


You've always had an eye for talent. 8)
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

www.youtube.com/c/heluvaskier
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby h.harb » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:44 am

I'm happy to see the technical skiers doing well in downhill. Meyer has been the top 20 this season in GS. Kriechmayer is also an excellent technical skier in the Austrian tradition. I'm just not impressed by the coaching of the slalom and GS guys. Matt and Feller have not improved their skiing in 2 seasons.
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby h.harb » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:47 am

Schwartz is still coming back from his ACL but is least in the mix, not of fan of his technique either, too much Norwiegn in it. Leaning, hand dragging, outside hip-high, not following in Hirscher's path.
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby gaku » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:43 pm

h.harb wrote:Schwartz is still coming back from his ACL but is least in the mix, not of fan of his technique either, too much Norwiegn in it. Leaning, hand dragging, outside hip-high, not following in Hirscher's path.


Argh, don't get me started . . . Norway's skiing paradigm is unfortunately infested with Ron LeMaster. Every master thesis on the subject I have read refeers to one or more of his assumptions as parameters, not to be questioned. Logically, in their conclusions they will continue to see upper body inclination as an integral component of the four key components of developing angles. Of course, they also accept as parameter that up-unweighing is as fast and efficient a release to get your CoM down the trajectory as down-unweighing. When you have one of these themes (up-unweighing), you must also have the other (inclination).

If all this was kept theoretical, ok. Sadly, in this case, universities and grassroot has always had close ties in Norway. So what conclusions degree-chasing scientists reach (often with little bodily knowledge of the art of the turn themselves, relying on the 'validity of' second-hand knowledge from external sources) is accepted as gospel and practiced across the nation, in clubs, seeping into the curriculum of ski instructor degrees, even ski gymnasiums (NTG, the school for future champions, for instance).

The ski section of Olympiatoppen has an public section dedicated to ski technique instructions. Some of the old-school drills still being taught, and examplified as the best the nation currently has to offer, would have you gasp for a PMTS oxygen mask. It includes leading with the inside-hand to the snow for early angles, getting 'hips' forward with extension/up unweighting drills, and much more. They also have some shocking steering drills I think PSIA would be proud of.

The state of theory these days, when the dominant design is outdated and unquestioned; down the ravine we go.

Edit: Didn't Schwarz also have his meniscus fixed? I thought his ACL had healed, and post-opeational meniscus stiffness is what he is struggling with this season?

If his was seen anything like mine (medial), I can relate. It's supposed to be healed between 4-6 months. But 8 months in and I still feel very stiff on my left knee (though after warming up it's better), almost like a pinch when the knee is in full extension.
Last edited by gaku on Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby h.harb » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:41 pm

There may be two young Austrians that are moving up quickly in Slalom. Pertl and Gstrein. Pertl finished 8th starting 73rd at Kitzbuhel. They both ski solid technique, Hirscher style, not typical Norweigan leaning and rotating.
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby HighAngles » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:11 am

Bringing this thread back to the original topic...

Quite often I experience situations when skiing with friends where its clear that skier goals wildly differ when it comes to how to ski a mountain. I am the type of skier who wants to actually "ski" a slope, not just survive the run. Many skiers seem to really enjoy just accomplishing getting down a challenging pitch alive, but their technique/skills to do so would not be described as skiing (at least not by me). For me, I don't really get any sense of accomplishment in just doing hop turns down a narrow chute or skiing something so difficult that you cannot link more than 2 turns together.

I really want to tell these skiers that they're not doing themselves any favors and they should dial it back to runs that they can handle and actually "ski", but like I said, they really seem to enjoy just surviving and replaying the war stories over drinks at the bar.

I think I know the reaction here among fellow PMTS advocates, but I'm interested in hearing perspectives on off-piste skiing. What are you guys looking for when choosing ungroomed terrain on a mountain?
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