PMTS Mental Keys

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Re: PMTS Mental Keys

Postby krazzy legs » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:45 pm

If, If the shins were angled forward from the knees the back of skis bending with tips of skis coming up off the snow in transition It would be skiing in back seat. Every expert skier uses flexing to release the hips might be low in transition pulling the feet back keeps the skier in balance this is very good skiing. I like the skiing in video upper body very smooth little up/down movement flexing to release got to love it.
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Re: PMTS Mental Keys

Postby l2ski » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:07 am

I see my mistake and should have been more careful before posting.
I should have been looking at the knees relative to the ankles or the shins being angled forward.
I was initially focusing on the hips relative to the ankles.
I do see him letting the skis get head after transition and then starting to pull back one the stance leg begins to flex (after
it has become fully extended). One example is frame sequence 495 - 566.
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Re: PMTS Mental Keys

Postby krazzy legs » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:06 am

Actually knees relative to ankles does not have to be as extreme as the shins being angled forward to be off balance in for/aft. I was using an extreme example of being in back seat so it would be easy to understand
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Re: PMTS Mental Keys

Postby HeluvaSkier » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:21 am

l2ski wrote:I see my mistake and should have been more careful before posting.
I should have been looking at the knees relative to the ankles or the shins being angled forward.


Actually, what you should have been focused on is "what are the skis doing when the skier is deeply flexed?" The answer is very little. The skier is light. By the time the stance ski is pressured in the turn, the skier is forward over the front of the ski, because they have pulled their feet back.

Again, this is why we caution PMTS skiers when they are performing MA of WC-level (or other very high level) skiing that is in a sense "above their pay grade". Being able to ski with the speeds and angles that these skiers can produce is a prerequisite for being able to properly analyze it. This is why high level skiing and demos are such a critical part of PMTS accreditation - and why black level coaches ski circles around other skiers on the mountain.
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

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Re: PMTS Mental Keys

Postby l2ski » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:18 am

HeluvaSkier wrote:
Actually, what you should have been focused on is "what are the skis doing when the skier is deeply flexed?" The answer is very little. The skier is light. By the time the stance ski is pressured in the turn, the skier is forward over the front of the ski, because they have pulled their feet back.


Thanks for providing the correct answer.

In my original post I wrote:

it seems to me that Neureuther is often in the back seat in transition, yet
he can still pressure the front of the skis and pull off the tight arcs. Is this possible because of the energy that
he has from the release and speed at which he is skiing?


I did mention the energy from the releasing; although I didn't elaborate, I was thinking about the skier
being weightless in transition and pullback, but I couldn't connect all of the dots and precisely come to the above answer.
If I had experienced such a high energy release then I would have known the answer.
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Re: PMTS Mental Keys

Postby mardale » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:07 pm

1 - "back"

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdugodlm5dvt52a/neu-back-1.jpg

2 - forward

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zln8g7xkn8bmtox/new-forward.jpg

Watch in slow motion how the boot is kept back in relation to the hips between 1 and 2.
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Re: PMTS Mental Keys

Postby blackthorn » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:58 pm

PMTS generally doesn't use terms such as "back seat".
Firstly because I guess there is no agreed definition, and even then it is probably best for an individual to concentrate on the movements that are/should be occurring in a dynamic situation, whether it be their own, or watching others.
As i see it, in PMTS and WC skiing this is part of or close to transition. For many others it is seen at other phases of the turn and is generally part of poor skiing and aching thighs.
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Re: PMTS Mental Keys

Postby Max_501 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:58 pm

l2ski wrote:If I had experienced such a high energy release then I would have known the answer.


Check out this thread. Read HH's posts at least a couple of times. Very good stuff there!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1612
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Re: PMTS Mental Keys

Postby l2ski » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:54 pm

Max_501 wrote:
l2ski wrote:If I had experienced such a high energy release then I would have known the answer.


Check out this thread. Read HH's posts at least a couple of times. Very good stuff there!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1612


Thanks, there is very good stuff in that link. The following post from that link gives a more detailed answer to what I
was trying to ask:

h.harb wrote:
Max501 asked me about his tip lifting at the end of some arcs, from his video, at or during the release. I see nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with it. I reviewed video and photos of the best skiers in the world, including all mountain and racers. In almost every turn series there is lifting of the old stance ski at the end of arcs. I find myself, in many photos in my ?Anyone can be an Expert Skier? book 2, doing it and also in recent videos I'm shooting for my new Essentials of Skiing DVD.

In high level skiing, extreme flexing and even a tip lift is not an out of balance state. For intermediate skiers it is an out of balance state, as intermedaite skiers don't generate the energy to re-center from that kind of release. Intermediate skiers have a real strong adjustment process to deal with when they sit this far back with low hips.

I find in my own all mountain skiing, I often get a low hip and lifted tip situation at the release. When skiing fast on 40 to 45 degree slopes, pressure and load develop quickly, and if there are terrain features as well, such as bumps, soft snow piles, the load doubles and that energy needs to be absorbed, distributed, and redirected.

In an attempt to spread out the forces, and keep the skis moving to the next arc, at the bottom of the arc, (I think Joubert called it gliding) rather than take the forces all at once, which can lead to hard hits, more flexing and some controlled intentional jetting of the skis can be beneficial or even necessary. This is easily reeled in, as the forces and loads on the body at release are strong, and can to re-directed to catch the hips up quickly. So even if you are back and the skis are moving forward, experts can deal with it skillfully. In intermediate skiing, more muscular effort by the skier, is needed to re-center, if such extreme positions are achieved. These re-centering movements at the high levels are very athletic movements, not often dealt with by ski instructors, so it?s not surprising that some confusion and misunderstanding prevails about these topics and these situations.
ImageImage
Some instructors will try to do MA on this and say it is bad technique. You need to be there and ski it at this speed, then you can talk!!!
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Re: PMTS Mental Keys

Postby Max_501 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:04 pm

l2ski wrote:Thanks, there is very good stuff in that link.


This topic has been covered many times in the past so if you search the forums there are many other threads to read.
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Re: PMTS Mental Keys

Postby VAskier » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:34 am

Max_501 wrote:
l2ski wrote:Thanks, there is very good stuff in that link.


This topic has been covered many times in the past so if you search the forums there are many other threads to read.


Thanks for recently bumping so many great threads to the top, Max!
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