How does cuff pressure come into play?

[BigE]

I've seen threads here speaking about the cuff being crushed during the turn and would like a bit more information about this element, specifically when cuff pressure is "on" / "off", and where this pressure happens.

Clearly, forward cuff pressure is "off" in the Hi-C portion of the turn. I believe that pressure goes "on" at the fall line and off shortly thereafter.

[Max_501]

The focus is on pulling the feet back. If you do that then you should feel the front of the boot with your shin. The pressure will increase (boots getting crushed) from the apex until the release because the hips are forward relative to the feet.

[BigE]

Thanks!

So if the pressure diminishes on the front of the boot, either the skier is not pulling the feet back enough, or has released.

Is it correct to say that the pressure should never slowly diminish?

[NoCleverName]

Clearly, forward cuff pressure is "off" in the Hi-C portion of the turn. I believe that pressure goes "on" at the fall line and off shortly thereafter.

I must be doing something wrong because I strive to always have cuff pressure (or should we introduce a new acronym at this point, "CP" )

I find I tend to lose it if I'm not paying attention to pull-back during transition; I'm shooting to have it before I start the next turn ... in the high C. I don't really notice if I'm "crushing", but then again, I've already admitted to not paying attention. I just want it all the time.

[Max_501]

Is it correct to say that the pressure should never slowly diminish?

The slower the release the slower the pressure would diminish. But IMO you are looking in the wrong area if you are focusing on boot cuff pressure.

[h.harb]

Noteworthy comment coming up, follow the text! . File it somewhere if you want to become an expert skier. Achieving forward pressure in your skis (I did not say boots) has more to do with proper releasing, than pushing your shins forward in your boots, dorsi flexion, (a PSIA favorite) and extending the hips.

[deicreo]

I know I am paraphrasing Harald. Proper release means: FTR so that new outside leg can extend as in this capture.
She must have had her hips ahead of her feet becouse this outside leg was fully stretched.
Stacked like this she is definitely avoiding pushing shins. If she were then she would definitely lost that turn.
Very probable that not many men skiers were where this girl already was.

Note: take it with a pinch of salt, I am not an expert at all. However, I must say that Haralds analysis here and on his blog
helps tremendously in watching WC skiing.

[NoCleverName]

This is an interesting picture. Aside from the massive tail bend on that right ski (looks like it's headed for the junk heap!) you can see she is literally standing on top of her skis.

[deicreo]

This is an interesting picture. Aside from the massive tail bend on that right ski (looks like it's headed for the junk heap!) you can see she is literally standing on top of her skis.

When I first noticed that extremely tipped skis and hip on the snow but not damped into the snow I thought it is worth sharing here. It may also be helpful - as this is very extreme - to understand
the matter of this thread.

[Max_501]

Just a reminder that we've been down this road before. Shin pressure is simply an outcome of proper movements and one of the reasons we like stiff boots.

Forget about shin pressure (that is a sensation) and focus on the movement (which is pulling your feet back). Go do the Way Forward drills described in Essentials. You'll find that when you try to do the version of the drill which involves actually making turns from a way forward position, it is very difficult (as it should be).

However, what you will have done with the drill is learned how to get *truly* forward and you have actually explored what too far forward feels like. Believe me, "too far forward" isn't a point of philisophical discussion--there is a clear threshold where you can no longer function effectively as a skier.

Don't make this more complicated than it is. Movements are instructive. If you just go DO the movement, you'll begin to understand the concepts in question. As this thread demonstrates, you can't rely on other people's descriptions of skiing concepts; they are too individual and too fraught with the potential for misunderstanding. Watching skiing (or looking at pictures) is just as problematic. You can only do so much taking about skiing. Beyond a certain point, you have to figure things out for yourself.

Go do and eventually you will find the answers to your questions.

These questions are drifting into the output side of the equation. PMTS is about the input. What movements are used to produce the desired outcome. I never think about using my calf muscle. We don't focus on shin pressure because its the wrong place to look and will be different for each person. There is no ideal ratio because we are in movement and things are constantly changing.

When we talk about the feeling of pressure that results from fore/aft management we focus on the foot. As a skier slices through a turn the pressure moves from slightly in front of the arch to slightly behind the arch. Not everyone gets to a point where they have a good sense of this pressure and its really not required for advanced skiing. But an expert like HH can describe exactly where the pressure is as he is slicing a turn like the one demonstrated in this video:

Learn to get forward using the Essentials and you'll feel shin pressure as a result, simple as that.

[BigE]

What I am seeing in the snapshots is a "stacked" alignment of hips over the outside ski. My notion of pressure here relates to the use of the boot cuff to assist in producing "spring"/performance from the ski. Just as pre-loading the musculature will improve the height of a standing jump, the pre-loading of the musculature assisted by pressuring the boot cuff will increase the rebound from the ski.

Clearly, the foot must be pulled back for the stacked alignment to occur.

Yes, foot pullback is the "input" to the process. I am not challenging that.

While I am no expert, when watching the WC skiers, there is little to no cuff pressure at the top of the turn ( due to the float ) and a LOT at the fall line and just after, where they begin stacked/extended and then allow the stance leg to flex while holding the edge and continuing to tip just prior to release. Obviously, the description of the changes to forward cuff pressure to describe success will vary from turn to turn, and are internal cues, making it impossible to use as the sole teaching reference.

IMO, detecting cuff pressure and it's timing is a necessary feedback. It won't tell you if you are doing the movements right, but can help discover that you are doing them wrong -- eg rear cuff pressure entering the fall-line (back seated)

[deicreo]

Big E, you can skip my post, though I would like to share my thoughts. Maybe someone finally rebuke me.

I do not think WC skiers are preloading boot, ski, cuff or anything in order to enhance rebound. The rebound that they get is a result
of the skis performing on the snow. I think they kind of await for the load that is building up as they pass the apex to make a use of it.

[Max_501]

IMO, detecting cuff pressure and it's timing is a necessary feedback.

Cuff pressure is the wrong area to focus and is not typically used as a cue in PMTS. Move the focus to the foot.

When we talk about the feeling of pressure that results from fore/aft management we focus on the foot. As a skier slices through a turn the pressure moves from slightly in front of the arch to slightly behind the arch. Not everyone gets to a point where they have a good sense of this pressure and its really not required for advanced skiing. But an expert like HH can describe exactly where the pressure is as he is slicing a turn like the one demonstrated in this video:

[BigE]

OK Max.

Thanks.

[BigE]

Big E, you can skip my post, though I would like to share my thoughts. Maybe someone finally rebuke me.

I do not think WC skiers are preloading boot, ski, cuff or anything in order to enhance rebound. The rebound that they get is a result
of the skis performing on the snow. I think they kind of await for the load that is building up as they pass the apex to make a use of it.

Then why does Atomic bother making a 170 flex?