The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby DougD » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:33 am

Bolter wrote:Agreed that the PSIA movements are flawed but one can progress along the Cert path and be granted the L1,2 and 3 pin. Unfortunately the residual inefficient movements and misconceptions plague this skier- until purged.

Even more unfortunately, they plague the instructor's trusting students. The L1, 2 and 3 pins signify increasing dedication and expertise, but few skiers (or instructors) appreciate that this dedication and expertise are based on misconceptions that promulgate inefficient movements.

The least effective, most physically harmful ski lesson I ever received was a 2-hour private with a PSIA L3. He was recommended and hired to confirm a shop's indoor alignment of new boots. He and the shop both knew I had a previous knee injury, yet both botched the evaluation. For the balance of the lesson, the sum of the L3's skiing guidance was, "See that guy over there. He's a great skier. Try to ski more like that."... Seriously?

Bolter wrote:...the skis need to be angled, edged, tipped, and as soon as some grip is achieved, the inside leg can be flexed and shortened, which gets the body inside, not the feet to the outside."

I've never raced above local NASTAR, never had a minute's race coaching, yet in my first full season of working on PMTS I understand this because I've done it. A close stance with huge vertical separation (brushing the inside ankle rivet up along the outside cuff, calf and knee) helps your tipping, CA and CB move the body waaay inside the stance ski with zero stance leg pushing. This produces High C carving, edge angles, edgehold, and turn radius control that are unattainable in a wider stance.

It's a hoot to slice clean, tight, round arcs on hardpack or ice with confidence and control. If a 61yo non-racer can do this, almost any skier can. They just need to be shown how. Good job trying to educate your PSIA buddies.
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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby h.harb » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:56 am

USSA coaching now is following PSIA's lead, so if you have kids in USSA programs you are in trouble.
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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby skijim13 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:10 am

I was cleaning out old paperwork and found the PSIA technical manual and decided to take a look at it again. The manual talks about outcomes but really never talks about what movements are required to obtain them. The instructor who reads this manual really has no pathway of how to obtain this movement in themselves. One of my favorites is speed control by shaping your turn and making round turns, yet the manual provides no real idea how to make this happen. One of my friends who is also a PSIA instructor overheard me telling someone at the ski club banquet that I spent a great deal of time learning to flex into my turns without an extension. He came over and told me what are you talking about, all good turns need an extension of the old outside leg to push you into the new turn. I asked him who taught it to him and he answered an PSIA examiner. I tried to explain why flexing was the more efficient movement, but since an examiner told him to do it, someone like me without the fancy pin and patch of an examiner could not possible know better. All the examiners I took clinics from can’t ski close to how good the PMTS coaches I seen ski.
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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby DougD » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:33 pm

skijim13 wrote:I was cleaning out old paperwork and found the PSIA technical manual and decided to take a look at it again. The manual talks about outcomes but really never talks about what movements are required to obtain them. The instructor who reads this manual really has no pathway of how to obtain this movement in themselves. One of my favorites is speed control by shaping your turn and making round turns, yet the manual provides no real idea how to make this happen.

I remember starting to read one of the first editions, decades ago. I gave up after a few chapters because it gave me nothing to work with. Lito's original book, simple as it was, offered skiers a clear path forward. It wasn't PMTS, especially the 1985 version, but it presented a workable learning progression. It also wasn't written or edited by a committee.

I tried to explain why flexing was the more efficient movement, but since an examiner told him to do it, someone like me without the fancy pin and patch of an examiner could not possible know better.

"You don't need a brain, my friend", said the Wizard. "You already have a very good one. You just need a diploma!" :lol:

HH was Demo Team. That beats your friend's examiner.

Or... crystal globes trump lapel patches. Ask your friend to watch a few frame-by-frame videos of Shiffrin, Fenninger and Hirscher while keeping an open mind about their transitions.
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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby skijim13 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:15 am

Doug, when you have the PSIA lens on and also don't understand the biomechanics of tipping. A PSIA trained person will not understand that tipping of the foot at the base of the kinetic chain causes secondary femor rotation, what they will see is the turn was the result of the leg and foot steering. If you look at the picture of the photo from the spring event of the PSIA and racers that Harald posted the link to you will see them working on a leg steering drill. I don't believe that most PSIA trained instructors will ever believe that you can make turns without leg steering.

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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby DougD » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:41 am

Jim,

I hope you're wrong, though I have no reason to think so. Being inside PSIA you understand their ability (or inability) to think outside the box better than I can. Organizational inertia can sometimes become so overwhelming that even the best-intentioned, most knowledgeable leader cannot change it.

The video you just posted is both comical and frightening, particularly the demo at 0:51-54. The PSIA is actively demonstrating and teaching movements that damage or destroy connective tissues in our knees. Forget the skiing, why aren't orthopedic surgeons and physical therapists protesting en masse?
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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby skijim13 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:55 am

Doug, the PSIA is sending them new customers everyday.
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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby skijim13 » Wed May 06, 2015 4:12 am

PSIA demo team training
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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby hyper_squirrel7 » Sun May 10, 2015 4:08 pm

Looks like they are slamming the brakes in the bottom-C
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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby DougD » Mon May 11, 2015 7:09 am

Indeed. Stop torturing us Jim! All that hupping, hurling and hitting disturbs my skiing muscle memory. I feel jittery just watching it.

For relief, I re-watched Fenninger's GS victory to secure the 2015 World Cup. Phew! Calmed my skiing nerves right down. Her beautifully efficient skiing reminds me of Janica Kostelic... profoundly calm and nuanced control vs. helter skelter scrambling.
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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby BigE » Mon May 11, 2015 2:01 pm

Visual learners must feel sick looking at that....
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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby skijim13 » Wed May 13, 2015 8:34 am

Here are examples of Level III skiing standards, making level III is very difficult for many instructors and many work their whole career and not pass the skiing. After learning PMTS I lost my desire to work at this. I expect after my short turn camp to make short turns much better than these.



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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby milesb » Wed May 13, 2015 9:21 am

Interesting that those videos specifically say that inclination and constant ski width is expected. Almost like they are differentiating their skiing from PMTS ;)
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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby jbotti » Wed May 13, 2015 12:27 pm

Yeah love to see them do that on Ice. But that would be consistent with the PSIA in that you need a different turn for every different type of terrain and/or situation :D
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: The conversion and realization of PSIA instructors

Postby DougD » Wed May 13, 2015 2:21 pm

From the medium turns video:

Skis remain the same distance apart throughout the turn – Not exhibited by most of these skiers, whose skis steadily diverge from a close stance above the apex to a wide stance going into the transition. The momentary close stance is only when their skis are unweighted. The widening stance is due to inadequate inside foot management. :?

Subtle fore/aft movements keeps center of mass centered over base of support – Would it KILL them to say, “pull or hold your feet back”? :P

Tipping comes from legs under stable body AND inclination – Tipping comes from body inclination? Really? :roll:

Inclination begins in initiation phase – Ah... the truth comes out. If you unweight with a big HUP! into a release with straight legs, you can't tip. Hurling the upper body downhill is the only way to edge the skis and get inside the new turn. :(

Inclination increases during shaping phase – Yeah… let’s lean WAY inside. Make sure to push the weighted inside foot apart and forward too (ignoring point #1). As jbotti said, this works so well on ice. :lol:

Inclination decreases during finish phase – My upper body and head are going through bigger angle changes than my skis! I'm getting seasick! :mrgreen:
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