The Phantom Move

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The Phantom Move

Postby Max_501 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:47 am

The PMTS Phantom Move (also called a Super Phantom) is a compound movement that is one of the keys to HH's incredible all mountain skiing.

A look at the smaller and very important pieces that are included in the Phantom:

- Balancing on the LTE of the uphill ski before starting the new turn
- Flexing the outside leg to release
- Tipping the new inside foot to the LTE (enough to create an o-frame)
- Pulling/tucking the new inside foot towards the stance foot (narrow stance)
- CA/CB
- Balance on the new outside ski

How many here are working hard to master the Phantom? How many have skipped it?
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Re: The Phantom Move

Postby skijim13 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:53 am

Been working on this all season, when done right it gives a clean engagement to the new set of edges. Get lazy and don't start by transfering balance to the LTE edge and you get a wedge entry. Something I will work on this summer on the tipping board.
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Re: The Phantom Move

Postby ToddW » Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:35 am

Mastery is a high bar. Still working on it and hope to continue for a couple decades.

I'll be working "hard" on perfecting my super phantom in between Zillertals beers and five course meals at Hintertux in a couple of weeks. Oh, the sacrifices we make to perfect our skiing! It's so strenuous that I did a pre-Tux warmup prep session with Harald two weeks ago. I'm hoping that some of it sticks.

There's a huge difference between owning your uphill LTE at transition and letting the uphill ski flop down or pushing it out. Same thing for a boots tight together stance and the other elements of the phantom. Take up Max's challenge and find out for yourself. If you already have, then continue to refine until you can ski tight short turns in tough snow like Harald (or if you're the ambitious sort, aim to outski Hirscher)
.
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Re: The Phantom Move

Postby Robert0325 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:37 am

I was concentrating pretty much full time on phantom moves on a short 3 day ski trip at the end of February. I will be doing the same again when skiing over Easter.
For me the "lift" part of lift and tilt is quite easy. The "tilt" bit I find difficult, I really struggle to get the "O" frame. My break through this season was to flex more in the release, this helps with early engagement of the LTE.
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Re: The Phantom Move

Postby l2ski » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:14 am

I have been practicing the Phantom Move all season as in the
drills in ACBAES 1, Chapter 5. Also, I have been practicing by doing a shallow traverse
on the uphill ski little toe edge and performing the heal lift, tilt, pull in, and pull back with the downhill ski.
I have been taking video of my drill work as well this season.

All of the details are there in Chapter 5, but I would like to emphasize
that balance, BOTH fore/aft and lateral, are crucial in making a correct
phantom move. This allows the free foot to initially tip and engage
with the front of the stance ski.
At least this is what I have experience this season.

If one is not centered over the skis fore/aft initially,
then the front of the stance ski will not engage and it will be difficult to make the turn with
a passive stance leg and tipping alone.
Incorrect movements may then occur such as pushing the tail out or using
the upper body to rotate, and this will throw one out of balance even more.
Furthermore, it is difficult to release at the end of the turn when ones balance is aft.

When the condition became wet and slushy here on the east coast, the flaws in my movements
were magnified; I could not perform a phantom move to the left (stance ski is the right)
to complete a tight turn. I corresponded with Diana because I thought my balance issues
had to do with my alignment on my right boot; she had done the alignment for me in November of 2014.
She immediately saw that I was not skiing centered over my skis; I was actually back on my heals.
She suggested that would benefit from a heal lift. In fact, I had actually switched
from the HEAD PRX14 bindings to the PRD12 bindings at the beginning of this season and
that has totally impacting by skiing this year; my natural stance on the PRD12 bindings is aft,
whereas the PRX14 bindings have a higher delta (ratio in height between heal and toe).

I have learned all of this in the past few weeks. I switched back to the PRX14 bindings
and in my last ski day I primarily focused on keeping my heals behind my hips.
That means, start the first turn properly centered over the skis, use pull back
during transition, and keep the free foot back and tucked in during the turn.

I still have work to do but the improvement was huge. I felt much more balanced;
lifting the heal of the old stance ski and pulling it back while tipping during transition made my transfer
of balance much smoother and quicker, and I was able to perform correct phantom moves
to make adequately tight turns to have nice speed control.

I hope this may be helpful for anybody new to PMTS who has been working alone.
If you're having trouble with the phantom move, consider if you are standing centered over your skis.
If there are any inaccuracies here please correct me.
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Re: The Phantom Move

Postby h.harb » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:22 am

Todd did a tremendous job with his CA and CB two weeks ago. My last post on my Blog shows the results of his hard work. I have before and after stills I take from video. The difference is amazing. And the great thing about what Todd is working on and what PMTS provides, it is what Shiffrin, Fenninger and Hirscher are doing. The photos don't lie!
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Re: The Phantom Move

Postby nickia » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:05 am

Max_501 wrote:The PMTS Phantom Move (also called a Super Phantom) is a compound movement that is one of the keys to HH's incredible all mountain skiing.

A look at the smaller and very important pieces that are included in the Phantom:

- Balancing on the LTE of the uphill ski before starting the new turn
- Flexing the outside leg to release
- Tipping the new inside foot to the LTE (enough to create an o-frame)
- Pulling/tucking the new inside foot towards the stance foot (narrow stance)
- CA/CB
- Balance on the new outside ski

How many here are working hard to master the Phantom? How many have skipped it?



Hi Max,

Thanks for the information.

Does lifting the stance ski automatically mean one is also flexing the outside leg? In other words, is there any way one can lift the stance ski yet not flexing the stance leg?
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Re: The Phantom Move

Postby Obrules15 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:44 am

nickia wrote:
Max_501 wrote:The PMTS Phantom Move (also called a Super Phantom) is a compound movement that is one of the keys to HH's incredible all mountain skiing.

A look at the smaller and very important pieces that are included in the Phantom:

- Balancing on the LTE of the uphill ski before starting the new turn
- Flexing the outside leg to release
- Tipping the new inside foot to the LTE (enough to create an o-frame)
- Pulling/tucking the new inside foot towards the stance foot (narrow stance)
- CA/CB
- Balance on the new outside ski

How many here are working hard to master the Phantom? How many have skipped it?




Hi Max,

Thanks for the information.

Does lifting the stance ski automatically mean one is also flexing the outside leg? In other words, is there any way one can lift the stance ski yet not flexing the stance leg?


If you extend your inside leg the outside one will lift off even if it is not flexed.
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Re: The Phantom Move

Postby Ken » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:55 pm

Does lifting the stance ski automatically mean one is also flexing the outside leg? In other words, is there any way one can lift the stance ski yet not flexing the stance leg?
nickia


You are completing a left turn. Your weight is primarily on the inside edge of the right ski.
Lighten your right ski. Your weight is now on the outside edge of the left ski.
Tip the right ski, the new inside ski for the new right turn, to its little toe edge.
Hold the left ski's outside edge on the snow. Don't give that edge away.
Tip the right ski more, and more. Maintain the left ski's edge.
Tip the right ski more until your body movement across your skis takes the left ski edge away from you.
The inside edge of your left ski, the new outside ski, is now engaged in the snow as you lighten and tip the right foot in this right turn. Allow the new outside leg to lengthen.
CA & CB as you've been taught. Pull back on the inside foot as you've been taught.
What you've accomplished is to keep an edge engaged on the snow as long as possible. As long as you have an edge engaged, you have the opportunity for control. This is especially valuable on steep hard pack. When it's done right it is as smooth as ice skating, almost like a dance step. No struggle, no strain.

Even better, as the very first step, pull both feet strongly back to get the tips to better engage in the snow, then start the Super Phantom. The steeper the pitch or the tighter the new turn radius, the stronger the pull back needs to be.
Rooster today
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Re: The Phantom Move

Postby l2ski » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:51 am

Lately I've been practicing an aggressive phantom move with strong continuous
pulling back and in of the free foot, and aggressive tipping one turn at a time.
I am trying to finish counteracted, but sometimes I find that my hips get locked
into rotating with the turn. It doesn't always happen, but it usually
happens more when turning to the left.

Are there any obvious reason why the rotation can happen; I don't
believe it's due to alignment because I had my alignment done
at Harb Ski Systems.

I try to set myself up so that I'm strongly balanced on the stance leg
by raising the free side hip and flexing the stance leg. Initially I dorsiflex
when raising the free foot and same side hip,
but then I let go of the dorsiflexing when I begin tipping
and raising the tail and lowering the tip on the snow.
I also initially have my torso and hips slightly turned in the direction that I want to go at the start.
I feel stronger in this position to balance on the stance leg.

I'm trying to copy HH from the essentials fore-aft video. Here is a front view frame
of the phatom move demonstration:

Image
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Re: The Phantom Move

Postby Max_501 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:08 am

l2ski wrote:...but then I let go of the dorsiflexing when I begin tipping
and raising the tail and lowering the tip on the snow.


Why are you stopping the dorsiflexion?
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Re: The Phantom Move

Postby l2ski » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:56 am

Max_501 wrote:
l2ski wrote:...but then I let go of the dorsiflexing when I begin tipping
and raising the tail and lowering the tip on the snow.


Why are you stopping the dorsiflexion?


That's a good question and I had to think about
why I was making this mistake.
I was experimenting with how to get
the tail lift; I see that this is a mistake because tail lift
is a result from pullback and flexing the
inside leg while tipping. Flexing the ankles is part of the pullback movement.

According to Essentials, Chapter Bio, Foot / Ankle,
dorsiflexion also happens during tipping to LTE,
and I can also feel this.

If I may answer my own question, releasing the dorsiflexion
must have had an impact on my hip position before the
turn started. According to Essentials, Chapter Bio,
Hip, tipping to LTE rotates the femur externally which
puts the hips in a slightly countered and skeletally strong position.
I can definitely feel this when practicing tipping to LTE while static.
I must have incorrectly had stance leg tipping to BTE which rotates the hip
in the direction of the turn. This locked me in and I could not
counteract as the turn progressed.
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Re: The Phantom Move

Postby h.harb » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:17 pm

New inside foot pull back maintains dorsiflexion even if the tail of the ski gets a slight lift. Notice how at release, my ski has tip lift, but after LTE tipping (and pull back) the front of the ski goes back down automatically.
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Re: The Phantom Move

Postby l2ski » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:45 am

h.harb wrote:New inside foot pull back maintains dorsiflexion even if the tail of the ski gets a slight lift. Notice how at release, my ski has tip lift, but after LTE tipping (and pull back) the front of the ski goes back down automatically.


Harald, thanks for confirming this.
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