Counter acting PMTS style

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Counter acting PMTS style

Postby h.harb » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:39 pm

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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby Robert0325 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:02 am

2 questions in relation to CA and CB
1. Are there any recommended stretch exercises to increase the necessary hip flexibility?
2. Is there a good dry land test I can carry out to check my hip flexibility?

I've reviewed myself in a mirror on slant board to HH's demo's and I think I've got into the same positions. I've also done the same with Diana's new dry land video comparing myself to Diana's positions and I think I can get to the same position although that is only my interpretation of course.
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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby Max_501 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:48 pm

h.harb wrote:This is a highly complex area of the body. It involves muscles that rotate and turn the femur, attached to the back of the pelvis, muscles that attach to the pelvis, with opposite muscles on the other side. Also for CB the side muscles and spine ribs to hip connective muscles help with CB. Unilateral contraction of the psoas muscles causes rotation of the torso away from the side of contraction and sidebending toward the side of contraction (as if leaning to one side and looking over ones raised shoulder); abdominals assist that movement. The Quadratus Lumborum is also involved in CB to tilt the upper body.
http://resistancetraining.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/pelvic-girdle-and-psoas-muscles/



Image
Femur rotation is a totally different area of movement. The Gluteus Maximus moves the femur back under the hip, the rotators of the femur under the pelvis are Gemellus Superior, Gluteus minims, Quadratus and Piriformus. They create the femur countering movements on one side.

Knowing all this is great, but it really doesn't help much, you still have to know how to move all this in unison and in some ways antagonistically to create CB and CA.

I have had plenty of massage therapists and physic therapists in classes before and many did not know how to create CB and CA on the correct side. They did know where the muscles were and what they were supposed to do.
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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby h.harb » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:25 pm

Thanks Max501, that's what I said!
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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby skijim13 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:17 am

Robert,
I know from my experience that CA is hard to get correct, I have been working on it for many years. Two things that helped me this year was to relax more, becauses if you lock out the muscles of your upper back you block CA. The other great tip our coach Walter told us was to turn the little zipper first before the upper zipper of the jacket. This great tip helped for me to remember to also CA with my pelvis. I spent three days on our mountain working with this using the drills for CA in the essentials videos.
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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby Robert0325 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:55 am

skijim13 wrote:Robert,
I know from my experience that CA is hard to get correct, I have been working on it for many years. Two things that helped me this year was to relax more, becauses if you lock out the muscles of your upper back you block CA. The other great tip our coach Walter told us was to turn the little zipper first before the upper zipper of the jacket. This great tip helped for me to remember to also CA with my pelvis. I spent three days on our mountain working with this using the drills for CA in the essentials videos.

Thanks for that bit of advice. When yo talk of "little zipper" is that the one on a pocket rather than the one in the middle.. sorry if this seems a silly question, maybe a uk/us English misunderstanding. ..
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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby Ken » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:17 pm

Try pushing the inside hip forward, all the way, as well as lifting it. Push the inside hip forward while you're pulling the inside foot back.
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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby h.harb » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:57 pm

There are numerous approaches we use to develop CA and CB, this is one idea, but it may not be the one that works for everyone.
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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby Robert0325 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:15 pm

Thanks all for the advice. Currently skiing in Austria and now beginning to have some success with CA. Adice on this forum + angry mother + dryland vids have really helped.
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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby skijim13 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:09 am

The little Zipper is the one in your pants in the center, by moving this first you will think CA of the pelvis. My wife and I took this to the slopes while wearing the Hip-O-Meter and worked on both CA/CB and releasing slowly for the four days over the past weekend, we were sore by it has greatly improved a our skill of CA/CB. I found one of our issues is CA of the upper torso is easy by the pelvis is not easy to remember to take along in your turns. I also had a problem with too much tail lift, by switching to lifting the tip first I am fixing this bad habit.
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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby Basil j » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:32 am

This is a great topic and one often not explained well, even by race coaches. My daughter is in the U14's and it amazes me that when I watch the girls free ski they all look fairly solid, but for many of them, once they get into a tough GS course, their legs separate, they follow their tips, get 2 footed and it looks like survival skiing instead of the smooth round turns they exhibit when free skiing.When they post decent times they feel successful, but I look at it as a journey that is extremely limiting their potential. The girls who stay solid and are always the fastest are the ones that exhibit solid counteracting and confident out side ski pressure. It's great to get the mileage and the reps and my daughter is becoming a better skier, but when I mention her lack of counter acting, outside leg to outside leg transitioning,Flexing and tipping her inside ski & parallel leg shafts ,I get the blank stare back form the coach.
It's very frustrating because there is fine line between being a good sports parent and letting the coaches do their job, and determining when to cross the line and intervene to address, in my mind obvious issues that can have immediate results if addressed.
Last edited by Basil j on Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby h.harb » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:55 pm

This is a constant problem in USSA, CSIA, and Canadian race programs. I even know people/parents who are on the board of directors of programs, where they have attended a Harb Camp and end up knowing more then the home coach. It's frustrating for these parents to watch their own kids getting poor coaching, (and they know it) yet, they can't say anything to the coaches. The coaches act like experts and don't want to learn anything.
USSA coaching is the same league as PSIA teaching.
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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby Max_501 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:05 pm

Some of us have had a similar experience with our junior racers. As I watched my kids technique go in a direction that was opposite of what I saw the top WC racers doing I decided to step in for their technique instruction. I had the kids watch the PMTS videos with me so they had a visual model and then I spent at least an hour after their race training days working on narrowing the stance and flexing (both of which were directly opposite of what they were being coached). At home we'd often watch WC footage of winning races and I pointed out how the top WC racers used the same movements we were learning from the PMTS videos. At one point one of the kids told a coach he was wrong about a wide stance (which was pretty funny), and I got called to the mat for that. Nothing I could say was going to convince this coach that teaching the kids a wide stance was counter productive so I shut my mouth and then when we were in the car I told my kids to ignore everything the coaches said that was opposite of what HH wanted them to do. So when a coach said to extend between turns (often shouted as "stand up") or they heard "wider, wider, wider", they'd politely say "I'm trying my best" and leave it at that. Coaching for course tactics still came from the race coaches while I provided technique feedback via text messages they'd read on the lift (suck up the inside leg, more CB, tip earlier, and so on). They got faster and faster with this model.
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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby milesb » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:52 pm

Max501, possibly more important, your kids learned a critical social lesson.
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Re: Counter acting PMTS style

Postby skijim13 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:02 am

On our mountain the race team is large and makes the mountain a great deal of money. However, the racers make wide stance skidded tail push turns with extension with wedge turn entries. Many of our race coaches are PSIA level two skiers that moved up as race coaches and can't make a good parallel turn. I feel sad that these students are not getting the coaching they think they are. Funny to watch them run gates from the lift in a super wide stance with extension. Last week I watched a coach teaching them to extend fast like springs.
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