Which drills to do?

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Re: Which drills to do?

Postby Max_501 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:49 pm

skiffie wrote:That was really unnecessary. I wasn't planning on doing it - I was just asking why they look like they are doing the opposite.


Somewhere on the forum is an old thread that discusses MAing WC racers. The bottom line was that they are exceptional athletes and can get away with things that most of us cannot. For example, I need to keep my inside hand forward and up to support CA and CB because my torso tends to go where my hands go. OTOH, someone with incredible core strength and thousands of hours of training may be able to keep the torso pointed in the right direction even if their hands are down and back.
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Re: Which drills to do?

Postby skiffie » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:01 pm

Max_501 wrote:
skiffie wrote:That was really unnecessary. I wasn't planning on doing it - I was just asking why they look like they are doing the opposite.


Somewhere on the forum is an old thread that discusses MAing WC racers. The bottom line was that they are exceptional athletes and can get away with things that most of us cannot. For example, I need to keep my inside hand forward and up to support CA and CB because my torso tends to go where my hands go. OTOH, someone with incredible core strength and thousands of hours of training may be able to keep the torso pointed in the right direction even if their hands are down and back.


Thanks, I'll look for it. But I wasn't referring to the inside hand being down and back - I was referring to a very obvious 'flail' of the hand, up and out (I say flailing, but it seems deliberate) on the opposite side of the turn he's about to make (thus also opposite the tipping foot). Here is a gif that shows it clearly. Anna Veith does the same thing.

https://giphy.com/gifs/ZwEUuWBowxi8A3uRNP
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Re: Which drills to do?

Postby noobSkier » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:08 pm

skiffe,

I don't think anyone wants to have a pointless theoretical discussion about the specific biomechanics of skiing. HH has figured it all out! The whole beauty of PMTS is that the immense complexity of world-cup skiing is abstracted away into a series of simple exercises. If you are here to improve your skiing, theres only one way of going about that:

1. Get someone to film you skiing
2. Post video of yourself skiing
3. Get world-class advice from professionals

Or even better, sign up for a camp!
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Re: Which drills to do?

Postby Max_501 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:16 pm

skiffie wrote:But I wasn't referring to the inside hand being down and back - I was referring to a very obvious 'flail' of the hand, up and out (I say flailing, but it seems deliberate) on the opposite side of the turn he's about to make (thus also opposite the tipping foot). Here is a gif that shows it clearly. Anna Veith does the same thing.

https://giphy.com/gifs/ZwEUuWBowxi8A3uRNP


That gif is a good example of what I described in the earlier post. Notice how the large arm movements don't disrupt the position of the torso. Recreational skiers would be twisting the torso all over the place if they moved their arms like that.

noobSkier wrote:I don't think anyone wants to have a pointless theoretical discussion about the specific biomechanics of skiing. HH has figured it all out! The whole beauty of PMTS is that the immense complexity of world-cup skiing is abstracted away into a series of simple exercises.


Very true.
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Re: Which drills to do?

Postby skiffie » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:17 pm

noobSkier wrote:skiffe,

I don't think anyone wants to have a pointless theoretical discussion about the specific biomechanics of skiing. HH has figured it all out! The whole beauty of PMTS is that the immense complexity of world-cup skiing is abstracted away into a series of simple exercises


Well, sure, but there are many discussions about who is doing what on the racecourse, and HH analyzes racers' movements, including the biomechanics, all the time on the blog. I mean it's fine if nobody knows the answer, just let me know! I was really just curious.

If you are here to improve your skiing, theres only one way of going about that:

1. Get someone to film you skiing
2. Post video of yourself skiing
3. Get world-class advice from professionals

Or even better, sign up for a camp!


I've already been to camps, was planning on going back for more, and am working on the video. I don't see the harm in asking a question in the meantime, nor the need for snark. We are all here to learn are we not!

That gif is a good example of what I described in the earlier post. Notice how the large arm movements don't disrupt the position of the torso. Recreational skiers would be twisting the torso all over the place if they moved their arms like that.


oh sure, the original question was that I was just curious why they do it.
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Re: Which drills to do?

Postby h.harb » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:39 pm

The question was really funny, it's like if the world cup guys show this, why shouldn't I, that's funny.

Do you want to compare your needs for skiing to that of a world cup skier?

The way WC skiers ski isn't in the realm of understanding of regular US Ski Team coaches, let alone skiers. Unless WC skiing is dissected properly, by someone who knows the forces they deal with and the speed, what you see and hear on TV, it's not relevant to skiers.

PMTS is based on the movements that the best are using and trying to keep happening. PMTS is based on the movements of WC skiers when they don't need to recover or adapt to their situations, in other words, the fundamentals for their most refined movements. However, in the heat of the battle, they do deteriorate, and that's what viewers don't understand.

Even the commentators some of which are former world cup skiers, they don't understand this. AJ Kitt is a terrible commentator, along with Brandenburg, Lewis, and Porino, all are terrible. If you understand where and how Hirscher applies PMTS, you can see exactly why Hirscher is the best. He can come back to CB, after a high energy release; where the forces throw him downhill, that's why the outside arm lifts. He also uses flexing and retraction better than any racer. But USSA coaching and PSIA never address this.

As another example, PSIA uses the incorrect WC visuals as the bases for their excuses, however not one of them who has written their program, has ever skied on the world cup.

For example, I find it hilarious when i hear, because a WC skier skivots, pivots, or stivots, PSIA wants to promote it as what should be part of freeskiing technique. WC skiers shouldn't be doing it and the ones that do, are not winning.
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Re: Which drills to do?

Postby skiffie » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:49 pm

h.harb wrote:The question was really funny, it's like if the world cup guys show this, why shouldn't I, that's funny.


I actually wasn't saying why shouldn't I... The original question was just 'by the way I noticed this and was curious why they are doing it.' I didn't say anything about myself.

If you understand where and how Hirscher applies PMTS, you can see exactly why Hirscher is the best. He can come back to CB, after a high energy release; where the forces throw him downhill, that's why the outside arm lifts.


cool, thank you for the explanation!
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