Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby Roundturns » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:52 am

We were out in Vail skiing earlier in the month and rode the lift with an instructor . My friend asked him what a private lesson cost now, and the instructor indicated $1,200 for the day. My friend asked if that was for one person, and the instructor said the ski school didn't care how many people there were!

I don't know if he was "screwing with us" or not. But I am thinking if one instructor can book $1200 of business per day , why not? Not knowing any better the $1,200 of revenue would be more than reaching several group lessons?

As others have stated, a lot of ski school revenue is represented by wealthy skiers not wanting to wait in line. It's impressive HH has built a great business with his PMTS teaching method. Creating your own product and building a successful business is a great achievement.

I have no idea, but would be curious to learn what the Top Guy running a big PSIA Ski School makes a year. The guys and gals teaching I know depend on tips, and a lot of vacationing skiers think that because the lessons they are paying for are so expensive the instructors are well paid.
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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby h.harb » Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:15 am

precisionchiro

Well said and absolutely correct. I am at the moment coaching a young man who went to Burke Mt. Academy for three years. I coached him from ages 6 to 14, then he went to Burke.

The great Burke Academy the one that says they made Mikaela Shiffrin.

He was desperate and came to me last spring after realizing he was going nowhere in ski racing. I had not seen him ski in 3 years. His skiing was horrendous. He was three turns away from blowing every knee ligament or from some other major injury. He was running about 70 FIS points.

Basically, I totally reworked his boots. Burke has no clue about how to set up boots. They send the obvious boot issues to a guy named PJ Dewey in Vermont who screws up more athletes then helps. I skied with this athlete last spring, he is now 18. At 14 he was one of the most promising skiers I have worked with, at least as talented as Mark Engle.

I am still working with him from his training videos. Long story short, in his first races this year, he dropped his points by 20, in GS and Slalom. He is within a few tenths now of the guys qualifying for US team world cup starts. Some runs this season already, he has improved by 2 seconds over last year. As I was doing his alignment, I told him exactly that, he would see seconds falling off his times.

We are missing many things in USSA coaching. It is dismal and daunting trying to become a top racer in this country. Watching the US skiers who have world cup starts, it's obvious the coaching and movement discipline is not there. Sure some of these young guys are great athletes using eveything in their power to get down the course, but it's not good skiing. And it's so inconsistent, every once and awhile if conditions are good there is a fast run. But skiing like this without solid fundamentals is very taxing.
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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby precisionchiro » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:34 am

Harald, I think you showed me a few pics and video clips of that racer at Tech Camp a few weeks ago. He appeared to have PHENOMENAL flexing and CA abilities.

A few of the parent coaches at my area went to Burke themselves... I met and skied/coached with one of them just this past Saturday. Yikes.

I don't get it. If they are representative of what Burke produces, that's horrifying. Forget their level of coaching abilities and understanding of technique, it's not even worth mentioning. Does Burke teach their racers to ski on their tails? Because every Burke former racer I see has tremendous inside tip lead and rear cuff leverage.
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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby h.harb » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:16 pm

Coaching in North America is horrendous, the Canadian Team and association are no better.
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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby noobSkier » Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:16 pm

I don't know if this was always the case, but telling someone they need to work on their skiing is taken roughly the same way as saying they have a low IQ (there are cruder analogies that might be a better fit). How do you fix that? My vote is for a youtube series with Harald ruthlessly ripping apart willing participants Gordon Ramsey style. Comedic and instructive!
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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby precisionchiro » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:55 pm

noobSkier wrote:I don't know if this was always the case, but telling someone they need to work on their skiing is taken roughly the same way as saying they have a low IQ (there are cruder analogies that might be a better fit). How do you fix that? My vote is for a youtube series with Harald ruthlessly ripping apart willing participants Gordon Ramsey style. Comedic and instructive!


LOL... I feel your pain, noobSkier. :D

Rather than coming from the aspect of "You need to work on your skiing" or "You need to fix things"... I try my best to come from an aspect of "Let's see if we can INCREASE some of the specific movements you're making in your skiing."

I think that comes across as more palatable, and hopefully they interpret that as you having a level of respect for what they're already doing (even if you don't), rather than sending the message of "I think your skiing sucks."

Or... as one PSIA examiner told a guy in our Level 2 Cert Exam... "Your skiing hurts my eyes." (The poor guy was devastated)

But I do like imagining Harald sideslipping down a line of students, one at a time, holding a piece of bread over each ear piece of their helmet, yelling...

"WHAT ARE YOU?!?!?!"

"I am an idiot sandwich."

"SAY IT LOUDER!!!"

"I AM AN IDIOT SANDWICH!!!"

hahahahahahahahahahahaha! :lol:
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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby ToddW » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:04 pm

Harald is quite the gentleman in a camp coaching environment.

The experience and the unexpected load of frank truth can be tough, but Harald is supportive and cheering for the skiers in the group.

There's a problem with the previous poster's idea of emphasizing the movements that are being done right. Often it's the movements that aren't being done at all or that shouldn't be done that are teaching priority #1. It's not possible to "INCREASE" them because they're simply wrong. We know what the essential movements In skiing are. It's a fixed list that doesn't change from examiner to examiner or year to year. Until all the essential movements are present in a skier, to just "INCREASE" is often a suboptimal approach.

If you've studied the PMTS instructor manual or trained under a black or blue level instructor, you know that every bit of instruction and feedback is tied back to skier motivation / goals. This is the key to getting a skier to take a leap of faith and make basic changes rather than incrementally increasing dirt for things they already have.

If I tell you "do X Y and Z" it's probably a big turn off. But if a black level coach who skis stunningly well tells you "let's experiment with X Y and Z drills. It will lay the foundation for eventually doubling your edge grip on those steeper hard surfaces you want to conquer" then odds are good you'll be all over their advice even though it's not of the easy "INCREASE" sort.
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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby h.harb » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:37 pm

Thank you, Todd. I am a tough love guy, but I am supportive and I never give up on anyone. if you are spending money with us, you will get your money's worth and more. I cut to the chase some people may be surprised that I tell it like it is but I'm not going to bullshit anyone just because they paid. I am not PSIA where they spin your wheels and tell you how good you are even if you have it dead wrong. I tell you when you are doing it right and when it is actually good.
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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby h.harb » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:43 pm

"You need to work on your skiing" or "You need to fix things".

I would never approach anyone like this. The motivation has to come to from the skier. I don't tell anyone they need to improve, I gave up on that long ago.

I will critique skiers who pose themselves as experts but are not. I hate the fake attitude about skiing that exists in the national systems. It is a kiss ass, pat your butt, self-appreciation club.
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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby noobSkier » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:58 pm

im 100% with you HH...unwanted critique is a road to nowhere. My gripe is with individuals who ask for help but really only want to hear how well they are skiing.
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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby precisionchiro » Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:40 pm

ToddW wrote:There's a problem with the previous poster's idea of emphasizing the movements that are being done right. Often it's the movements that aren't being done at all or that shouldn't be done that are teaching priority #1. It's not possible to "INCREASE" them because they're simply wrong. We know what the essential movements In skiing are. It's a fixed list that doesn't change from examiner to examiner or year to year. Until all the essential movements are present in a skier, to just "INCREASE" is often a suboptimal approach.


Just to clarify what I was suggesting...

As noobSkier was pointing out, many skiers who are asking for help don’t like thinking, or being told, that their skiing DOES need work. (And in almost all cases, their primary movements need to be rebuilt from square 1). But I believe a more palatable way to TELL them that, and get them interested in listening to you and being receptive, is to suggest “Increasing some of their movements,” (even though their movements are wrong) but then teach and build the movements correctly.

As has been pointed out, it’s one thing to teach and coach very motivated students, but another thing to coach someone who SAYS they want your input and feedback, but are put off by being told that what they’re doing is wrong, or that they need to “lay a foundation” for improving a noticeable deficiency.
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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby noobSkier » Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:57 pm

I definitely see your point Precisionchiro...some subterfuge may the the best approach for many :lol:
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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby Vailsteve » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:52 pm

Fascinating to read this thread...it rehashes the same pro/con PMTS versus PSIA saga that has gone on for what seems like decades. All the same arguments. It is what it is, and I know “I” can’t change it. But I can try to give my best efforts to combine HH’s approach with some of the realities of teaching/learning to ski in a 3 or 4 day vacation.

Today I had three never-evers....a doctor and his two sons from Baton Rouge LA. If possible, I try and start with ACBAES Book one page one. Focus on tipping the feet. Little toe first. Tipping and more tipping. Static drills first, then sliding on snow.

Phantom move. Lift and tip. Static, then sliding.

Showed Diana videos on my iPhone at lunch.

More tipping and phantom move drills in the afternoon. OK to halfway decent parallel turns by the end of the day.
Dad and kids “wow...this is fun. And easy”.

Never left Chair 15.

Great students. Fun lesson. On a bunny slope. Three digit tip.

It can be done. Thanks to HH and Diana and all the other coaches who pummeled me.
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Re: Comparison of women Interski Demo Team skiers

Postby h.harb » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:39 pm

They do it every day at Welch Village with accredited PMTS instructors. People fly to Welch Village from all over the country and recently from New Zealand and Australia for PMTS lessons and ski weeks. Peter keeps raising the prices for his programs yet he still doesn't have enough PMTS instructors to keep up. Now the first generation of racer kids that started with us 6 years ago are getting accredited and being trained. Those kids don't have the PSIA bias because they don't care about PSIA. Welch Village has the most progressive Ski School programs in the world.

PSIA ski schools say it can't be done, well if you have blinders on for sure nothing can be done.

Peter's Grandfather started the ski area in the 50ies. Leigh is in his mid 80ies and still is at the area every day. He can't believe that people are coming to Welch for ski weeks making Welch a Destination area. He never liked PSIA, he was the chairman of the National ski area operator's association for many terms. He ran the ski area for over 50 years.
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