70+/80+ Skiing

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70+/80+ Skiing

Postby geezer skier » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:09 am

I was very interested in Harald's recent comments about the subtle changes in his skiing after Knee/hip replacements (and an aging body). Largely because of PMTS, and some lessons with Heluva, I became addicted to carving. Days away from my 80th birthday and I'm finding that I can't carve as many runs as I used to. Harald asked a couple of years ago if there was any interest in PMTS doing a special series on "Geezer" skiing. I, for one, would be very interested in such a thread/series. If Harald, with his incredible fitness, is having to make some adjustments--there must be some hope for the rest of us "Geezers" :D :D :D
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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby h.harb » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:56 pm

I never expected it but the body begins to show some changes at around 70. Some may have this experience earlier or later, but mine did some surprises for me in the last year or so. I'm much stiffer in the morning have to move around sometimes ride the stationary bike. Let's see, my hip flexors are constantly tight so I'm stretching all the time. My back gets tight but that may get better once the hip change is totally recovered. Once I get on the skis and some runs under my belt I'm ok, energy levels depend on previous days of skiing. I have not hit full capacity fitness and strength yet from my hip replacement so I'm still skiing about 75 to 80% of my ability. I seem to be ok after skiing with no sore muscles. I have a lot to live up to as my Dad skied well into his 90s.

I don't recover after the flu as quickly, energy is slower to come back. So there are setbacks we have to adjust to. The good thing is on the days I still feel like I was 60, I can still ski like I was 50.
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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby jbotti » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:37 pm

I skied for almost 5 hours today with Jim Gattis (former US National Champ in GS and two time NCAA champ, both many moons ago). Jim turns 80 in February. He still skis a ton and still does it well. Guys like Jim and Harald are blazing a trail for us, proving it can be done. But as both would attest, they continue to pay their dues keeping their body and flexibility in great shape.

As I approach my 60th birthday, I hope for more than 20 years more of good and enjoyable skiing.

I will also say that one thing I notice about everyone I have met that skis well in their 70's and 80's is that they are all quite thin. Weight is not our friend as we age!!
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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby RPH » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:37 pm

For Harald and the PMTS group,

I just wanted you to hear an interesting experience I had recently at my local ski area.

First a little about myself: I am presently in my 85th year. I started seriously skiing in 1965. Over the course of the years I studied everything I could find on ski technique to become the best skier I could. I finally skied well enough to be accepted as a member of the Arapahoe Basin Ski Patrol. I patrolled with them for ten years.

I think I have studied every book and watched every video you have released from the start and practiced with the same zeal I had when I started in 1965. Although my eighty-five year old body doesn't perform as well as I would like PMTS has made it possible to have many very enjoyable days of skiing in most conditions on the slopes, green and blue for now.

In September of 2016 I developed a serious Pulmonary Embolism and was rushed to the emergency room. They told me that cat scans showed my lungs were full of blood clots and there was about a fifty-fifty chance of recovery. They started treating me accordingly. While lying in bed with my body hooked up to all kinds of machines I made myself a promise. If I recovered from this I was going to purchase new skis and boots and have an alignment made by your people.

Well I finally did recover and kept that promise. I got new boots and skis; Diana helped me with my ski purchase, Walker with my boot selection and both Walker and Diana did the alignment. I even got to ski several runs with Walker at Loveland.

Now back to the story: I got off the lift and started down a gentle run, doing some PMTS exercises, until I reached the top of the blue run I was to ski. When I got there I noticed a narrow lane of untracked powder, about 6" deep, along the right side close to the trees all the way to the bottom, the middle was groomed. I took off into the powder and had a ball making the best short turns I am capable of and staying in the powder all the way. When I got to the bottom, to my surprise, three people; the head of the ski school and two "official PSIA examiners" who were touring the western slopes stopped me and told me to "keep up the good work" and many other strange words of praise? They had avoided the powder and stayed on the groomed section. I'm sure they didn't have a clue of what I was doing and I wasn't about to waste time trying to explain it.

Since that time I have several experiences like this with PSIA instructors. They like what they see but don't even know it's a different system from what they are trying to teach.
Ron

The words "keep up the good work" is really more appropriate for you Diana and the rest of your crew, I would not be skiing at my age if not for the PMTS system and all the kind and helpful folks in it.
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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby h.harb » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:52 pm

Thank you Ron for your story and your dedication.
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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby jbotti » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:13 am

Was skiing in Montana this past week and twice I ran into my friend's dad who is 96 and he skis 80 days per year still. I think Harald's dad was skiing some fairly hairy terrain late into his 80s. It can be done!
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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby Skizoo » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:03 am

I haven't posted here in quite a while but wanted to jump in this thread. I think a series on 'geezer' skiing would be very well received.

I'm 63 this year and started noticing physical differences around age 60. I've been lucky with good legs and knees but much less so with the back. I went from a 120+ day a year skier in my 50's to somewhere between 25-50 now.
While there are MANY far more skilled PMTS skiers than me, what I've learned from Harald's teaching, some private PMTS lessons and skiing with some really good PMTS skiers at Keystone/Abasin through the years makes skiing now so much easier and enjoyable than it would otherwise be. I don't think I make a turn without thinking of exactly what I should be doing, even if I don't always execute correctly. But to me that's part of the fun.

So another vote for a 'geezer' series..

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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby jbotti » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:09 am

We could probably make the case that everything that gets posted on this forum is part of the geezer series. Other than a small number of young ones, the average age of the bulk of the people that frequent this forum is probably 50+.

I turn 60 in February.
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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby CO_Steve » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:24 am

I'm in (66) for geezer pmts. One suggestion, lower elevation. I sleep at 6k ft now, down from 9.2k at Keystone, and it's made a world of difference.
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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby Vailsteve » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:49 pm

Add me as well to the geezer roster. Some days the legs don’t work, the lungs don’t work, the eyes can’t see in low light...ahhh, the joys of of a mid-60’s body. 65 coming up. Yuk!

But give everyone here credit...everyone here is STILL SKIING!! Yes, maybe we are a little slower, ski fewer bumps or ski less off-piste and more groomers. And that is more than OK.

I personally find great satisfaction in trying to master the proverbial “perfect” PMTS turn — in all conditions. And I think that most of us here delight in doing drills that help us do that. Technical precision is the goal...not simply bombing Riva Ridge.

Having said this, I now DO have a routine that I follow...stretch every morning, foam roll at night, and I ALWAYS take 2 or 3 warm up runs on a GREEN slope to loosen up my legs.

My wife says I need to try Yoga. She is probably right...but I HATE going to a gym!!

Finally, while maybe not completely necessary, i now soak my feet 3-4 times a week...but that is simply because I am ski boots from 7:30 AM to around 4:30 PM or so five or six days a week. Soaking does help keep my feet happy.

Bottom line I don’t know if we need a “geezer version” of PMTS....it is PMTS as it stands that lets me ski 100 plus, VERY full days.
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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby Ken » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:49 am

Here's a very brief summary of a report from a paper in The Journals Of Geronotology:
"Small age-related differences in physical activity were observed over most 10-year age spans for both men and women (all age group main effects p < .01). The most notable age-related differences in activity-related outcomes occurred in the 60 and 70 year age groups," and,

"Physical performance was worse with increasing age decade. Although men performed better than women across all ages, the decrement by age group was similar between genders. Worsening physical performance was observed as early as the fifth decade for chair stands and balance and in the sixth decade for gait speed and aerobic endurance. The number and strength of significant associations between physical performance and physical activity (PA) increased with greater age: the greatest number of significant associations was seen in the 60–79 age groups, with fewer reported in the 30–59 and 80–90+ age groups. More PA was associated with better physical function."

https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article/72/4/572/2629941

From the paper above it seems that physical performance is on a downward sloping age curve, and that the slope steepens in the 60-79 age groups. Physical activity is a help, but the slope still drops off. I'll soon be 74. I'm feeling the increasing rate drop off. While doing about the same weight training last summer as previous years I needed to reduce the weights due to joint issues. Connective tissue isn't keeping up with bone or muscle. Endurance training was also curtailed due to the joint issues, therefore the hours on the slopes needs to be reduced. A 4 day ski trip starts with a pretty full day, then less than full days, then a half day on the 4th day. (Right kneecap bone on femur bone is the main problem but not the only problem. A full replacement isn't too far off in the future. I'll likely have it done by Dr. Craig McAllister using his SwiftPath method. https://swiftpath.com/about/)

Harald has often commented that PMTS is very efficient skiing, great results without wasted effort. I'm appreciating that more and more.

I've skied with Harald's father. Great skier, great gentleman. Harald said that he put his dad on short skis, 160-something, to slow him down. It didn't work.
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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby h.harb » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:19 pm

Hi Ken,

Nice report although not good news for many of us. I think the sooner you learn PMTS, the longer your skiing career will remain at a reasonable quality level. Also, surgeries are a set back at any age but above 70 they do impact the speed of recovery back to prior strength. I am at 80% now, I skied about 10 runs testing skis today on hard steep slopes and feel good. (so far)

Building strength and avoiding joint pain becomes a major issue after 65. Let's face reality; we are never going to be what we once were, but keeping your motivation to withstand the onslaught of age should be a never-ending quest.

Thank you for mentioning my Dad, he's 98 now still active, not skiing because his shingles attack ruined his balance. But he has his garden and his books and believe it or not still drives. I hope I can come close to his longevity.
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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby Darren » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:27 pm

John Clendenen promotes having a method of skiing that benefits older skiers. Since he has his level 4 PMTS instructors is his method he uses the same movements as PMTS ? PMTS is rocks & I love it though I have seen John ski on you tube & he looks super smooth & makes skiing look easy also. Any thoughts on the 2 different systems ?
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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby jbotti » Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:40 am

I think there was a time when John was a true PMTS coach but that was many years ago. I have never done any of his camps but I know people who have and I have watched his bump instruction videos. What he is teaching (and skiing as well) is a long ways from PMTS. In bumps the essential that PMTS skiers cannot live without is CA and John skis with almost none and he doesn't appear to teach it. Compare his bump skiing to Harald's or to Reilly's and you will see some noticeable differences.
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Re: 70+/80+ Skiing

Postby jbotti » Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:47 am

And in keeping with the origin of this thread, here is video of a 102 year old skiing at Alta!! There is hope for us all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo
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