Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

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Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby solitone » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:55 pm

Hi all, I'm new to this forum. I've read Anyone Can Be an Expert Skier I, watched the 1st Essentials DVD on Tipping, Eliminate the Wedge II & III eVideos, and I'm currently reading Anyone Can Be an Expert Skier II.

I had seen some youtube videos on the phantom move, and noticed that focusing on tipping the inside foot has an immediate benefit on my skiing. Furthermore, sometimes I still have a slight wedge entry during transitions, and in Harb Ski System I've found for the first time a convincing explanation of what causes it. Hence my interest in PMTS :wink:

Being the release my weak point, I'm reading and reading the sections focusing on it. I have a couple of questions on the weighted release. In Anyone Can Be an Expert Skier II, chapter 8, I read:
The Weighted Release also eliminates the step-off or push-off from the downhill ski that many skiers use at the end of a turn to project their bodies uphill into the next turn.


Is this step-off the movement that Lito Tejada-Flores shows in this video here?
https://youtu.be/FxJaT5Tzbw8?t=1052

Secondly, where does the weighted release place in the progression? If I understand it right, I should first perfect the standard release, and in my case learn the super-phantom move to release, since I suffer from that wedge entry in steeps and other difficult conditions. Am I right?

Thanks & Regards!
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby blackthorn » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:04 am

I think it best to just concentrate on PMTS resource material. Otherwise, things can just get confusing. Lito certainly has a significant place in the evolution of technique teaching, but you will note that video was made before so-called "shaped skis". PMTS has evolved since that era.

The answer to you last question is "Yes". There is likely a lot do before you address the weighted release as a technique.
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby solitone » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:27 am

blackthorn wrote:I think it best to just concentrate on PMTS resource material. Otherwise, things can just get confusing. Lito certainly has a significant place in the evolution of technique teaching, but you will note that video was made before so-called "shaped skis". PMTS has evolved since that era.


I agree, but regarding the first question, I was trying to figure out what that step-off or push-off move is, and while looking Lito's video I wondered whether he's showing that bad habit in the section I linked. I'm not studying Lito's videos, just watching them to have an idea of the old technique (I'm pretty new to skiing).
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby blackthorn » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:42 am

PMTS uses very carefully thought out terms to describe its primary movements. That way a common terminology can be used which will generally mean similar things to those who study PMTS. Other ski forums frequently degenerate and a lack of a common terminology is often one of the main reasons.

In the turns shown in the video just after I join the link, in most turns I see flexion of the outside leg and extension of the inside leg at transition ( and for what it is worth, not what I think is commonly described as stepoff or pushoff from the downhill ski. ), but I stand to be corrected.
Last edited by blackthorn on Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby solitone » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:44 am

blackthorn wrote:The answer to you last question is "Yes". There is likely a lot do before you address the weighted release as a technique.


Ok, thanks.

The weighted release seems quite opposite to the standard movement. With the weighted release you release with the the weight on the downhill foot. By contrast, with the standard release your weight is on the uphill foot, although the release movement starts with the downhill foot anyway. The super-phantom exercise teaches to balance on the uphill foot before releasing, so it seems an exaggeration of the standard release. At least this is what I've understood thanks to the Eliminate the Wedge progression. Am I right?
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby blackthorn » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:32 am

At this point I will defer to one of the PMTS coaches. :)
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby blackthorn » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:32 am

At this point I will defer to one of the PMTS coaches. :)
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby Max_501 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:30 am

solitone wrote:Secondly, where does the weighted release place in the progression? If I understand it right, I should first perfect the standard release, and in my case learn the super-phantom move to release, since I suffer from that wedge entry in steeps and other difficult conditions. Am I right?


The progression is laid out in the books which teaches the phantom before the weighted release.

My guess is that you moved through Anyone Can Be An Expert Skier 1 too fast to develop the fundamental movements and balance used to create the super phantom which is the basis for PMTS. IMO a student should master each chapter of Book 1(confirm with video) before moving to the next chapter.
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby njdiver85 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:33 am

A great explanation that explains the benefits of the weighted release can be found in the Performance Free Skiing video, starting about 38 minutes in.
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby h.harb » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:07 pm

The weighted release is an advanced movement that requires proper build-up with the "Essentials" and a necessity for great flexing ability. The intermediate step is the two-footed release.
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby solitone » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:32 am

Thanks all and hi Harald!

So I’ll start with the Two footed release (par. 6-2 in Expert Skier 1), and then try and move to the Uphill foot release (6-7), AKA super-phantom, after practicing uphill foot balance.

If I understand it right, with the uphill foot release the transfer happens before the release, so the 1st and 2nd phase in the transition are inverted with respect to the standard two footed release—although with the Two footed immediate release (6-6) you already start anticipating the transfer phase: Transfer to uphill, little toe edge of new stance foot.
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby sgarrozzo » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:24 am

solitone wrote:If I understand it right, with the uphill foot release the transfer happens before the release, so the 1st and 2nd phase in the transition are inverted with respect to the standard two footed release—although with the Two footed immediate release (6-6) you already start anticipating the transfer phase: Transfer to uphill, little toe edge of new stance foot.



viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3600

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5202&p=52431&hilit=Phantom%2C+Super+Phantom+Weighted+Release#p52431
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby Max_501 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:31 am

solitone wrote:So I’ll start with the Two footed release (par. 6-2 in Expert Skier 1), and then try and move to the Uphill foot release (6-7), AKA super-phantom, after practicing uphill foot balance.


Assuming you've already mastered the movements earlier in Book 1, I'd suggest starting with Chapter 4 because there are important fundamental movements needed before one can be successful with Chapter 6.

Harald included this very important learning message in Chapter 1:

The skiing progression starts for the beginning skier and goes to the expert level. Enter the progression and practice it at any point. If the photos demonstrate your current skiing level, but you are stuck, use the bullet points as helpers. The bullets are at the end of each exercise. If you can perform every bullet you are ready to move to the next level of refinement. If you are having problems with the movements directed by the bullets, go back to the exercise where you can perform every bullet move. When you are able to perform all bullets moves in any particular exercise you are ready to move on. Reinforce the bullet moves to solidify your Primary Movements. Some fundamental movements presented in this method are not common ski movements, even for experts. Familiarize yourself with the new movements completely and the rest of the method will be easy to follow.


This tip from 7-2 might help:

At all costs, avoid turning the stance leg to tip toward the big toe edge as a means of engaging the ski (most skiers learn this movement first); this leads to a perpetual skidded wedge entry.
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby VAskier » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:43 pm

Max_501 wrote:
solitone wrote:So I’ll start with the Two footed release (par. 6-2 in Expert Skier 1), and then try and move to the Uphill foot release (6-7), AKA super-phantom, after practicing uphill foot balance.


Assuming you've already mastered the movements earlier in Book 1....
(snip)

Hi Solitone,
Are you working with a PMTS coach, or do you have video of yourself that a PMTS coach has seen to confirm that you have mastered the movements earlier in Book 1? If you answered "no" to both, then what method are you using to determine that you have mastered the movements earlier in Book 1 that are prerequisites of the two footed release?
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Re: Weighted release eliminates step-off from DH ski

Postby solitone » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:22 pm

Hi and thanks for all your suggestions!

In the last few days I’ve been practicing the phantom move and the basic release exercises in chapter 4 of Expert 1, plus some balance exercises. Although it’s easy to traverse on BTE of downhill foot, I find it much more challanging to balance on LTE of uphill foot, as I had never tried this before.

Unfortunately I don’t have a PMTS coach, since here in Italy there are none. And I don’t have video footage either. I base my assumption that I can perform an exercise on the bullets at the end of each paragraph.
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