Collecting all the Foot Boot Pull Back thoughts

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Collecting all the Foot Boot Pull Back thoughts

Postby Harald » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:38 pm

PMTS is governed by a set of movements when well orchestrated create a body that moves in unison with the natural forces of the mountain. In my new book, yet to be officially named, it will be titled along the lines of, ?Essentials or Requisites for Quality Skiing? I point out seven components that require integrating for quality skiing to happen. It doesn?t matter what kind of skier you wish to be, whether it be racer, bump skier, all mountain or groomed carver, the essentials do not change.
And the essentails need to be in tact.

From the framework of the book, two of the components appear recently on the forum for discussion; fore/aft movements and upper and lower body counterbalancing movements. In addition to C balancing and fore/aft balancing, I develop chapters that include: counteracting movements, tipping, flexing or bending, pole use and foot to foot pressuring.

Each of these components has its own development phase, testing and reintegration phase. A skier will be able to develop each component separately and learn how to re-integrate them into their skiing.

In PMTS fore/aft balance is mainly controlled, achieved and developed by foot movements at the base of the body. Moving the base, especially when the muscles to lever the upper body are weak and have little pulling power, moving the base makes re-centering much faster and more available. Ideally the upper body to begin with has some kind of reasonable fore/aft bending or hinging ability at the correct places. These places are the ankles, knees, hips and torso. The bending, flexing or Accordion-like folding ability of the body should be somewhat uniform, close to equal angles at all these points.


If a skier?s shins are straight out of the boots (vertical), thigh angles back and vertical upper body, this is not a good picture. In contrast, straight shins, butt out and back, with the upper body and shoulders hanging over the tips, doesn?t present the right image either.

Another relationship we often see in skiers is the over flexed to the extreme low position, with the shins at a radical forward angle, butt low and back and upper body, shoulders, far forward. Some of these issues are directly attributable to the ski boot design, meaning forward lean and ramp angle.

In our shop we often take Lange boots and Tecnica boots, the worst offenders, cut out and off the lower back part of upper cuff, straighten the boot?s cuff and re-rivet the back. This makes a profound difference for those skiers whose shin angle is forced forward by a short lower leg, large calf muscle or other factors such as limited dorsi-flexion.

We see many remedies for these problems and not the least being heel lifts. These issues are all equipment design related, but you should know something about equipment as you could be trying to re-adjust your fore/aft balance, but your equipment won?t allow it.

First let?s tackle the fore/aft balance issue. If you have read any of the PMTS literature you know that we call for pulling the old stance foot, boot or ski back under the hips at or during the release and transition phase of the turn.

By pulling one ski boot back you gain the added benefit of needing to bend the leg as you pull back, which helps to release the CM into the next turn and it removes the old stance ski and leg from interfering with the movement of that CM to the new turn center. The leg bending adds leverage to the hamstring muscles, which do most of the pulling.

Hip extensors and dorsi-flexors may contribute to the pulling of the boot and foot. This is done during transition because the skis are light and can be moved back more easily. When the skis and boots move back relative to the hips or CM, you will be standing more forward at the beginning of the turn. To gain even more tip pressure keep some tugging of the inside or new free foot through the upper part of the arc. If you are on steep slopes you may want to hold the free foot back even longer to stay forward.

One warning, pulling the foot back stops at the knee, hip extension takes over as the CM gains position over the boots. I see many skiers trying to move the whole leg back which disrupts everything and causes rotation.

This is where you have to pay attention. Even though you achieve forward balance with these movements, you should not pressure the ball of the foot. You should also not try to over flex the front of the boot. This sounds contradictory, but if you think about it, the idea makes all the sense in the world.

The idea of moving forward should be to move the CM or hip area ahead of the boots into the center of the new turn. Most skiers think you should try to get forward to pressure the front of the boot. With the CM over the boots you need not push onto the boots with much force and you will achieve tip pressure. With the hips back you need or think you need to push very hard on the front of the boots to achieve tip pressure. Skiing and making the front of the modern skis work for you is not about boot tongue pressure, it?s about where the CM or CG resides relative to the falline and center of the ski. Now that we have that out of the way, I can describe to you what I try to achieve during this phase of the turn.

Note: CM is center of mass, hips belly button area (not Worchester as many of you might have thought) CG is center of gravity baically the same thing.

On hard snow where I really want my edges to carve a thin, clean line, I pull my inside foot back and I hold my new stance side boot from moving forward. This allows my CG (Center of Gravity) to move forward and my boots to hold position. I try to feel the tip of the inside ski on the snow and the back of the inside ski light. You will notice many World Cup skiers doing this.

When I am in this situation, I feel very tall and almost towering over my skis. I feel like I am about to fall forward, but I never force myself forward. I do let my hips fall gradually to the inside of the turn as my edges engage and my skis build pressure. I do not push forward on the skis or boots. I actually keep the pressure, along the length of my foot (bottom of the foot) toward the back of the arch.

If I keep my inside boot back and don?t allow it to move forward through the turn, I can shorten the radius of the arc very quickly by increased tipping of the boots and relaxation of the inside hip to lower back area. I lead the turn, with the inside hip, moving it toward the inside of the turn (tipping and moving forward) this means the mid body with the inside hip.

When and if the inside boot slips forward to early, you get the park and ride syndrome. When the inside boot is forward the hips move back and an artificial non beneficial counter is developed, this causes the park and ride. If you keep the inside boot back your body moves through the radius of the arc with the skis, therefore keeping you in balance fore/aft through the whole turn until the skis are ready to move forward from behind the hips to forward of the hips, which is at the entry to the falline.

That should be plenty to digest for the next few hours. I look forward to your questions and comments.
"Maximum Skiing information, Minimum BS
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Re: Collecting all the Foot Boot Pull Back thoughts

Postby NoCleverName » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:02 am

Harald wrote: ?Essentials or Requisites for Quality Skiing?


To carry on the theme of the previous books, maybe "Fundamentals of Expert Skiing" or the "The Seven Fundamentals of ..." (maybe too long)?

By the way, I, and I'm sure a lot of people on this forum, would gladly pay a premium for autographed first-editions of this baby.
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Postby patprof » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:58 am

WOW Harald-what a post!! "Plenty to digest for the next couple of hours" NOT-how about the next couple of days! I second the idea of paying a premium for an autographed, early release edition of the new book.
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Signed copies available

Postby Harald » Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:08 am

No need to pay extra, I'd be glad to sign any books. When they arrive we will announce availablity.
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Postby onyxjl » Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:57 pm

All of my ski buddies bailed on me today so I had nothing to do but work on foot movements all day today. What Harald just referenced is one of the ideas I spent quite a bit of time on.

I've noticed that on really fast icy slopes, like they were today, when I am trying to really get the skis up on edge and crank out short turns, I have a tendency to get a little behind after the fall line now and again. It feels like my free foot has disconnected from the turn when this happens.

Starting out on easy green slopes I was working with counter-balancing to try and see how far on edge I could get the skis during the high C portion of the turn. When I started to concentrate on keeping my free foot from advancing forward I could feel much more leverage from the ankle on my free foot. This allowed my to tip the free foot more aggressively and gave me back the feeling of my free foot driving the turn.

I've recently discovered the power that getting comfortable with really flexing to release quickly and using the energy of the stored ski that I have been really focusing on that lately. As a result some of the other foundational movements have been a little neglected for a bit. Today I got the opportunity to rebuild and refocus on those movements from the ground up.

I experienced something that I have only occasionally gotten for one or two turns in the past. Today I was skiing entire runs were it felt like I was simplying rolling from free foot to free foot like a pendulum. It's an amazing feeling.

I am anxiously awaiting the new book!
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Postby kirtland » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:21 pm

Harald,

"On hard snow where I really want my edges to carve a thin, clean line, I pull my inside foot back and I hold my new stance side boot from moving forward. This allows my CG (Center of Gravity) to move forward and my boots to hold position. I try to feel the tip of the inside ski on the snow and the back of the inside ski light. You will notice many World Cup skiers doing this."

When I am trying to communicate this movement of pulling the inside foot back, to racers on the high school team. I have started this year borrowing and using John Clendenin's cue of feeling and sensing the little toe pad of the foot. This has resulted in a quicker understanding and implementation. My experience has been that when I have tried just saying pull the foot back, that pressure is still too far back on the inside foot and then there is a hesitation or up movement to bring the new stance foot underneath the hips. Whereas when the little toe pad is sensed and cued on, the skier can tell the foot is under the hip and with a release the foot stays under the hips and makes a smooth natural transition with the release.
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Other drills for fore/aft awarness

Postby John Mason » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:39 pm

John C also has you work on balancing mostly on the uphill LTE and then playing with fore/aft while using that uphill LTE like a butter knife. Fore balance will cause the tips to drop while aft balance makes the tails drop to the fall line. Playing with this he will, at least he did with us, get you to do full rotations. Quite fun in fact.

Besides learning to use fore/aft balance for passive balanced rotational effects, he uses it to teach awareness via the direct feeling in the foot of what those sensations mean in terms of fore/aft balance.

I just got back from 3 days of skiing and reviewed my videos and I finally feel comfortable with both how I feel when I ski and how I look on the videos in terms of fore/aft balance. Last year at this time I was still a basket case (up till the all-mountain camp with Maria and Diana where I had my major fore/aft balance breakthru last Feb). For me, the mental cue was to almost feel like I'm doing a shuffle right at transition. That old stance foot - right at the weight shift change has to 'shuffle' back or by the time I'm at neutral transition it's too late. At least that's what worked for me. The amount of 'shuffle' or pull back I feel like I'm doing is a ton compared to what it looks like on a video or if I look at my feet. On the video or looking at my feet I'm just keeping my shins parallel as my old arc ends, move to neutral and new arc begins. It's this change in simple geometry that makes the pull back required to keep the shins parallel.

The John Clendenon foot pad stuff didn't help me at the transition pull foot back point, but definately was a plus to increase my awareness of where things were in the turn. The other thing I liked about John Clendenon's fore/aft LTE footpad pile of nerves thing was so often people are taught (not PMTS) keep forward pressure on the shins at all times. John's approach opens up the range of fore/aft that you can actually use and play with. My sense in my own skiing is that fore/aft is almost never a constant but changes throughout the turn. You can also play with effects like aft goes faster but fore makes the ski bite harder. The key thing in PMTS is that the free foot movement lets you be in control of where you want the fore/aft to be. Its much harder to pull the stance leg back than it is to move the free foot back. Either will shift your CM in position to your skis center.
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Re: Collecting all the Foot Boot Pull Back thoughts

Postby MonsterMan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:52 pm

Mogul!

I mean bump if it's getting late where you are.
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Re: Collecting all the Foot Boot Pull Back thoughts

Postby grambo » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:36 pm

:shock: WOW! Thanks for the great post Harald...look forward to the new book.
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Re: Collecting all the Foot Boot Pull Back thoughts

Postby HeluvaSkier » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:38 pm

grambo wrote::shock: WOW! Thanks for the great post Harald...look forward to the new book.


Look at the date on that... It was prior to Essentials.
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Re: Collecting all the Foot Boot Pull Back thoughts

Postby BigE » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:41 pm

harald harb wrote:When and if the inside boot slips forward to early, you get the park and ride syndrome. When the inside boot is forward the hips move back and an artificial non beneficial counter is developed, this causes the park and ride.


This is commonly referred to up here as "dumping the hip".
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Re: Collecting all the Foot Boot Pull Back thoughts

Postby grambo » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:12 pm

HeluvaSkier wrote:Look at the date on that... It was prior to Essentials.


OOPS...yea was wondering about the book thing, but I saw another person said the same thing, so I thought maybe he was writing another one.

onyxjl wrote:I am anxiously awaiting the new book!


Just didn't bother to look at the dates.
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Re: Collecting all the Foot Boot Pull Back thoughts

Postby h.harb » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:17 pm

Sorry Big E , that maybe how TTS instructors refer to common skiing mistakes, but in PMTS; we define the exact reasons for poor results, we don't just clump together bad skiing and put a label on it, those are PSIA, CSIA tactics for not knowing what to do about movements they created in the first place.


The original post in this thread, was describing my Essentials book idea, before I had all the details figured out. It's out now, if anyone has yet to see it.
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Re: Collecting all the Foot Boot Pull Back thoughts

Postby BigE » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:12 am

No need to be sorry. I just wanted to point out for anyone reading from up here, the connection between movements and outcomes.
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Re: Collecting all the Foot Boot Pull Back thoughts

Postby Max_501 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:56 pm

There is so much brilliant info in this post from HH shared with us in 2006! Have you mastered it yet?

Harald wrote:PMTS is governed by a set of movements when well orchestrated create a body that moves in unison with the natural forces of the mountain. In my new book, yet to be officially named, it will be titled along the lines of, ?Essentials or Requisites for Quality Skiing? I point out seven components that require integrating for quality skiing to happen. It doesn?t matter what kind of skier you wish to be, whether it be racer, bump skier, all mountain or groomed carver, the essentials do not change.
And the essentails need to be in tact.

From the framework of the book, two of the components appear recently on the forum for discussion; fore/aft movements and upper and lower body counterbalancing movements. In addition to C balancing and fore/aft balancing, I develop chapters that include: counteracting movements, tipping, flexing or bending, pole use and foot to foot pressuring.

Each of these components has its own development phase, testing and reintegration phase. A skier will be able to develop each component separately and learn how to re-integrate them into their skiing.

In PMTS fore/aft balance is mainly controlled, achieved and developed by foot movements at the base of the body. Moving the base, especially when the muscles to lever the upper body are weak and have little pulling power, moving the base makes re-centering much faster and more available. Ideally the upper body to begin with has some kind of reasonable fore/aft bending or hinging ability at the correct places. These places are the ankles, knees, hips and torso. The bending, flexing or Accordion-like folding ability of the body should be somewhat uniform, close to equal angles at all these points.


If a skier?s shins are straight out of the boots (vertical), thigh angles back and vertical upper body, this is not a good picture. In contrast, straight shins, butt out and back, with the upper body and shoulders hanging over the tips, doesn?t present the right image either.

Another relationship we often see in skiers is the over flexed to the extreme low position, with the shins at a radical forward angle, butt low and back and upper body, shoulders, far forward. Some of these issues are directly attributable to the ski boot design, meaning forward lean and ramp angle.

In our shop we often take Lange boots and Tecnica boots, the worst offenders, cut out and off the lower back part of upper cuff, straighten the boot?s cuff and re-rivet the back. This makes a profound difference for those skiers whose shin angle is forced forward by a short lower leg, large calf muscle or other factors such as limited dorsi-flexion.

We see many remedies for these problems and not the least being heel lifts. These issues are all equipment design related, but you should know something about equipment as you could be trying to re-adjust your fore/aft balance, but your equipment won?t allow it.

First let?s tackle the fore/aft balance issue. If you have read any of the PMTS literature you know that we call for pulling the old stance foot, boot or ski back under the hips at or during the release and transition phase of the turn.

By pulling one ski boot back you gain the added benefit of needing to bend the leg as you pull back, which helps to release the CM into the next turn and it removes the old stance ski and leg from interfering with the movement of that CM to the new turn center. The leg bending adds leverage to the hamstring muscles, which do most of the pulling.

Hip extensors and dorsi-flexors may contribute to the pulling of the boot and foot. This is done during transition because the skis are light and can be moved back more easily. When the skis and boots move back relative to the hips or CM, you will be standing more forward at the beginning of the turn. To gain even more tip pressure keep some tugging of the inside or new free foot through the upper part of the arc. If you are on steep slopes you may want to hold the free foot back even longer to stay forward.

One warning, pulling the foot back stops at the knee, hip extension takes over as the CM gains position over the boots. I see many skiers trying to move the whole leg back which disrupts everything and causes rotation.

This is where you have to pay attention. Even though you achieve forward balance with these movements, you should not pressure the ball of the foot. You should also not try to over flex the front of the boot. This sounds contradictory, but if you think about it, the idea makes all the sense in the world.

The idea of moving forward should be to move the CM or hip area ahead of the boots into the center of the new turn. Most skiers think you should try to get forward to pressure the front of the boot. With the CM over the boots you need not push onto the boots with much force and you will achieve tip pressure. With the hips back you need or think you need to push very hard on the front of the boots to achieve tip pressure. Skiing and making the front of the modern skis work for you is not about boot tongue pressure, it?s about where the CM or CG resides relative to the falline and center of the ski. Now that we have that out of the way, I can describe to you what I try to achieve during this phase of the turn.

Note: CM is center of mass, hips belly button area (not Worchester as many of you might have thought) CG is center of gravity baically the same thing.

On hard snow where I really want my edges to carve a thin, clean line, I pull my inside foot back and I hold my new stance side boot from moving forward. This allows my CG (Center of Gravity) to move forward and my boots to hold position. I try to feel the tip of the inside ski on the snow and the back of the inside ski light. You will notice many World Cup skiers doing this.

When I am in this situation, I feel very tall and almost towering over my skis. I feel like I am about to fall forward, but I never force myself forward. I do let my hips fall gradually to the inside of the turn as my edges engage and my skis build pressure. I do not push forward on the skis or boots. I actually keep the pressure, along the length of my foot (bottom of the foot) toward the back of the arch.

If I keep my inside boot back and don?t allow it to move forward through the turn, I can shorten the radius of the arc very quickly by increased tipping of the boots and relaxation of the inside hip to lower back area. I lead the turn, with the inside hip, moving it toward the inside of the turn (tipping and moving forward) this means the mid body with the inside hip.

When and if the inside boot slips forward to early, you get the park and ride syndrome. When the inside boot is forward the hips move back and an artificial non beneficial counter is developed, this causes the park and ride. If you keep the inside boot back your body moves through the radius of the arc with the skis, therefore keeping you in balance fore/aft through the whole turn until the skis are ready to move forward from behind the hips to forward of the hips, which is at the entry to the falline.

That should be plenty to digest for the next few hours. I look forward to your questions and comments.
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