Come on, Man!

[h.harb]

At this point, I'm sure those who participated in this thread will be able to see that a pivot is about to happen. Kasper had a big break out season this year by learning to get more aggressive and straighten his line. Part of that line change of course involved having to do more pivoting. Watch the following run, in which he employs a ton of pivots, and uses anticipation to do so.

This is Rick, who says he's a world class coach. It's funny when the only person in the world that actually calls him a world class coach, is him?

I know Kasper's coach personally , I used to coach Kasper's coach. They never work on pivoting, and they never try to pivot. They try to carve above and through the arc. When they pivot, it's by mistake, it's because Kasper's timing is off and he released too early. These guys on Epic who listen to Rick are stuck, because they will stay bozos forever.

No one challenges Rick over there, I don't know why; none of his information make sense: don't they have the knowledge or the guts. Helluvaskier used to, but he got booted. We know that Ted Ligety answered Epic's rants and said that he never tires to pivot. Blardone is trying to stop pivoting. Now Rick is picking on Kasper, probably because he thinks no one knows about his skiing. I don't understand why the Epic coaches have to send out, not only the wrong message, but the opposite movements that the actual racers are trying to make. Are they trying to make everyone ski as badly as they already do?

[joco]

Speaking of pivots and racing, though the two are mutually exclusive, I once saw the Thredbo Ski racing school teaching junior racers how to pivot slip turn through slalom gates. Oh come on, Man!!!!!!!!!!

[HeluvaSkier]

Speaking of pivots and racing, though the two are mutually exclusive, I once saw the Thredbo Ski racing school teaching junior racers how to pivot slip turn through slalom gates. Oh come on, Man!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe they were slipping out the line?

That's about all a pivot slip is good for. That and... well... crap, I guess that's all a pivot slip is good for.

[h.harb]

Some people, mostly PSIA and USSA, still think pivot slips teach separating the upper and lower body and that it is the best method with which to teach it. Even if it does, all the benefits of upper lower body separation are lost due the extremely useless movements it takes to produce the Pivot Slip. The negatives far outweigh the positives. In PMTS we have several ways to produce results for each of the Essentials, and not one of them produces damaging, incorrect movements. TTS and coaching are filled with damaging protocols for learning movements.

Ski instruction and coaching are much like medicine in many ways. You can cut out cartilage to solve the knee problem, and sure the pain will be gone. But in the long run the patient would have been better off, if the surgeon would have sutured the meniscus or cartilage back together and let it heal.

Like a good surgeon, a good coach looks at the cure or solution that produces the best results for the athlete in the long term, not what is best for his reputation. Many short timer coaches, go with the latest trend and favorite technique of the month, without regard for the athlete's long term career. The worst coaches are those short tremors, who are looking to make a name for themselves, but have absolutely no credentials. That's what is happening over on Epic. Also, there are many coaches who have no eye for skiing or technique, yet have worked there way up the system with politics and brown nosing, you can't believe how prevalent this is in USSA skiing.

Anyway, the bottom line is, like selecting a surgeon, don't trust anyone until you have totally researched their credentials, seen their racing career history and tried their methods.

[Matt]

Getting the bulk of the turn done before the gate is almost always slower than centering the apex at the gate. It requires a racer to travel further, and to turn more out of the falline. It's old school advice given to kids with lower level skills, as a way to stay on a safe line. Safe is not fast.

Another gem from Epic. Why is it that they have no idea what racing is about?

The very line that they are saying is wrong or slow, is exactly what won Innerhofer the Gold at the World Championships and a Sliver in the GS. Everyone else was on Rick's line and we all know how well that turned out.

Rick's statement is really confusing IMO. It compares apples to oranges.
Getting the bulk of the turn before the gate means you enter the fall line before the gate.
The apex of the turn is where the turn radius is smallest.
The apex can be at the gate even if the bulk of the turn is made before the fall line .
Most racers in Sweden seem to focus on getting as tight a turn before the gate as possible these days, i.e. getting the apex above the gate.
It allows for a tighter line, and also pushes you down the hill when the forces are at maximum, rather than up the hill if you have the apex below the gate.

[h.harb]

I agree, my method is to be able shorten the radius from out to in, the idea that the arc above the gate is the same size and radius as the arc below the gate is invalid. GS especially is a slingshot event, where you make sure you have enough room around the gate to be clean after the gate. If you scrub your skis after the gate you are lost.

Also, there are different approaches for the steeps, as for the flat and for the off set of the gates; to develop one approach for GS turns as they are doing, is stupid. It defines their lack of racing understanding.

[geoffda]

Some people, mostly PSIA and USSA, still think pivot slips teach separating the upper and lower body and that it is the best method with which to teach it.

Apparently upper/lower body seperation is even easier than that now. You just have to "let" your upper body be the anchor while your lower body moves independently. From what I understand, all you have to do is tighten your core and presto, your torso will just magically stay in place! In the alternate universe that these people are living in, apparently the hips have no influence on the torso whatsoever. I wish I knew how to enter that universe, because in my world, I have to work hard to move my hips opposite the turn direction so I can get my CA.

Come On Man! The only anchor here is yet another heaping helping of B.S. that will hold back your skiing.

[HeluvaSkier]

I wish I knew how to enter that universe, because in my world, I have to work hard to move my hips opposite the turn direction so I can get my CA.

Based on that comment, most detractors would refer to you as an intermediate skier who can only ski blue groomers.

That's okay though, because you're still ahead of me and my doube dark greens.

BTW - hows that inside leg coming?

[geoffda]

BTW - hows that inside leg coming?

Haven't had much of an opportunity to work on it as the dumpage has continued. I think its coming along though. Need to get some video...

[h.harb]

I wouldn't be talking about "how my inside leg is doing", so openly on a public forum.

[Matt]

Can you provide a link I'm usually up for a good laugh, especially in my condition.

Here is something more for you while you heal. A direct quote from BB@epic:

BB:
The interesting thing about sideslips and pivot slips, though, is not so much their usefulness in descending a challenging pitch or a mogul run. Few seem to realize how very applicable they are to even pure, linked carved turns as well. Even the most purely carved turns have a "float phase," an edge change, and an edge release. Pivot slips are all about what you do during that phase, when the skis are NOT carving. Mastering Pivot Slips will do wonders for all your turns, from twisted, braking skids to pure carves, and everything in between

Come on, Man!

[Matt]

Time to revive this thread. Found this picture of ski instructors in a resort close by:


Come on, Man!

[MonsterMan]

I personally can't turn to the right to save myself, but really, i'd rather watch ME than this crap. If this doesn't hurt your eyes you are a bum. (ref Bob Hawke 26 September 198?; my birthday!!!!)

[MonsterMan]

Come fu%^in on man!!!

You turn right much better than these guys!

[MonsterMan]

The races

This was the first time the America's Cup had needed a sixth race, let alone a seventh.[3]
Date Winner Yacht Loser Yacht Score Delta
September 14, 1983 Liberty US-40 Australia II KA-6 1-0 1:10
September 15, 1983 Liberty US-40 Australia II KA-6 2-0 1:33
September 18, 1983 Australia II KA-6 Liberty US-40 1-2 3:14
September 20, 1983 Liberty US-40 Australia KA-6 3-1 0:43
September 21, 1983 Australia II KA-6 Liberty US-40 2-3 1:47
September 22, 1983 Australia II KA-6 Liberty US-40 3-3 3:25
September 26, 1983 Australia II KA-6 Liberty US-40 4-3 0:41
[edit] Aftermath

The final race was televised in Australia in the early hours just before dawn, and the victory was celebrated in public venues across Australia. Prime Minister Bob Hawke was interviewed at the dawn celebration in Claremont, Western Australia, and said, "Any boss who sacks anyone for not turning up today is a bum".

The America's Cup was transferred from the New York Yacht Club to the Royal Perth Yacht Club located in Perth Western Australia who subsequently hosted their first, but unsuccessful, defense in the 1987 America's Cup.