Fore/aft boot

[chris719]

Do you typically test under the binding, then plate the boot after the adjustment is decided on?

[h.harb]

That is right!

[JohnMoore]

It can all be done under the boots.

Sorry, I don't get what 'under the boots' means (the binding, for example, is under the boot). Do you mean on the boot sole? If so, then that's good. I presume, though, that there's still a slight potential issue with different binding delta angles. Is this something which can usually be compensated for, or does one just avoid certain bindings?

[geoffda]

Yes, HSS will screw appropriately canted plates to the bottom of the boot sole (plates can be undone or changed) and then they will shave the tops of the toe and heel plugs of the boot down (subtracting the height of the plate) so they meet din standards for binding interface. There isn't a good in-boot solution for varying binding delta. Either use bindings with the same delta on all your skis, shim your bindings so they are all the same, or dial your fore-aft for your daily driver & then just deal with the differences on your other skis.

[JohnMoore]

Yes, HSS will screw appropriately canted plates to the bottom of the boot sole (plates can be undone or changed) and then they will shave the tops of the toe and heel plugs of the boot down (subtracting the height of the plate) so they meet din standards for binding interface. There isn't a good in-boot solution for varying binding delta. Either use bindings with the same delta on all your skis, shim your bindings so they are all the same, or dial your fore-aft for your daily driver & then just deal with the differences on your other skis.

Thanks, that's helpful. As mentioned above, my concern was to do with rental skis, so there obviously won't be anything I can do there binding-wise. I imagine compensating for differences in binding delta can't be a big deal, otherwise people wouldn't be easily able to test a series of different skis successfully.

[chris719]

It can be a big difference actually depending on the model of binding. The good news is that it seems most high end frontside skis are around 2-3 mm of delta now I believe. There are still outliers with as much as 7 mm of delta built in though.

[JohnMoore]

Is there a simple way of telling how good your fore/aft setup is from a static position - e.g lifting skis, jumping, something like that? I ask because before I got my Head boots, I had Nordica Grand Prixs and I never felt I was in a neutral position even just standing there - I felt in the back seat before I even started moving.

[chris719]

I'm not an expert here but one thing to look for is if the knees are out too far past the toes, ie overflexed.

[Max_501]

For recreational skiing, binding delta differences aren't a huge deal if you want to rent a pair of skis for a day. However, if you are a demoing then you need to consider delta differences. For your own quiver it helps to have the delta on all skis roughly the same.

[chris719]

On a related note, does anyone know if it's possible to get replacement bootboards/zeppas for the RS Raptors? I want to grind the heel to reduce the ramp (no room to lift the toes), but I'm afraid of going too far or screwing it up.

[h.harb]

I'm not an expert here but one thing to look for is if the knees are out too far past the toes, ie overflexed.

This may have nothing to do with binding delta, this is mostly a boot issue.

[JohnMoore]

On a related note, does anyone know if it's possible to get replacement bootboards/zeppas for the RS Raptors? I want to grind the heel to reduce the ramp (no room to lift the toes), but I'm afraid of going too far or screwing it up.

Out of curiosity, why do you want to reduce the ramp angle? I.e., what has led you to the conclusion that this will be beneficial? I ask because I skied with some Head Raptor 115 RS boots last week and really liked them in terms of control and comfort, but I wasn't certain my fore/aft balance was quite right with them. I had difficulty finding the sweet spot of a couple of pairs of skis I tried, Dynastar Contact Grooves (165cm) and Head Supershape Magnums (163cm), which surprised me because I've skied with Supershapes before without problems and had a generally good time with Dynastars. The skis I used mainly for the week were Dynastar Speed Courses in 170cm and I didn't feel I had any problem finding the sweet spot with these (maybe they just have a larger sweet spot in that length?)

[chris719]

Well, I find myself stuck in the back seat often. I was skiing in an Atomic RT CS in a 27 which has a lot less ramp (visibly) than the bootboard of the Raptor in a 25 (I have the Supershape RS but I believe it's the same except flex is 110). Once I got the Raptor things got slightly worse.

I had tried heel lifts and felt even more aft with those in, so I want to lift the toe to reduce the ramp angle. Problem is, there is literally no room to raise the toe at all inside the boot with the fit I have. My fitter added 4 mm of external toe lift with a Nordica plate kit and this seems to have helped, but I think I want to flatten the setup even more without affecting the forward lean, so the only way to go at this point is grinding the bootboard.

It's really just a trial and error process and I would like to be able to go back if I end up going too far.

One thing to note is your ankle range of motion. I can get my shins to an almost freakish angle to my foot, so it's not likely that I will be negatively impacted by closing the ankle by lowering the heel or raising the toes. If you have limited dorsiflexion you may need the opposite.

[chris719]

I'm not an expert here but one thing to look for is if the knees are out too far past the toes, ie overflexed.

This may have nothing to do with binding delta, this is mostly a boot issue.

Yes, for some reason when I posted that I forgot lifting outside the boot does not change the angle of the foot to the tibia.

[h.harb]

Where are you located we might have some boot boards or we can order some. If you reduce inside ramp you become more doriflexed, which closes the ankle and gives better leverage for the hamstring muscles to pullback and hold back the feet. However it does create more space over the instep.

There are many discussions about this on previous forum posts. Please use the "Search" feature on the forum, it's very handy and informative!